- This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St.

Petersburg, Sarasota.

[music] - Coming up, Florida homeowners are promised the biggest property tax break in a generation.

So why is it already headed to court?

And what do new official cost projections mean for your county, your schools, your services, then Alligator Alcatraz, the detention camp that went up almost overnight in the Everglades is suddenly empty.

The official reason is hurricane season.

But after a year of controversy and $1 billion, is that the whole story?

And the race for governor is wide open.

So why are Florida Republicans on track to pick their nominee without a single debate?

We look at the governor's take and how it breaks from the state party line.

And our panel shares more on the biggest stories impacting West Central Florida.

Florida This Week starts now.

[music] Welcome back everybody.

I'm Lisette Campos.

Joining our panel today is Aakash Patel.

He is the president and founder of Elevate Inc in Tampa.

He's also a Republican strategist.

We also have Rosemary Ohara.

She is the former editor of the editorial page of the Sun Sentinel, also a member of the ACLU of Florida, and Tara Newsom.

She is a legal expert and law professor at St.

Pete College.

Thank you so much for joining us.

The true cost of Florida's property tax cut is coming into focus, and it looks like a troubling picture for local services.

New official estimates put the statewide hit to local government near $5 billion in the first year it climbs to nearly $12 billion annually within five years.

These projections come from a state revenue estimating conference here at home.

Hillsborough County alone could see a potential loss of more than $350 million a year.

The measure is also facing a court challenge over how the ballot question is worded.

Voters will have their say in November.

Tara, I'd like to start with you.

The title seems to be the first place where folks are looking at in terms of that court challenge.

The title is Save Our Homes from Excessive Property Taxes.

Explain to our viewers why that is a problem.

- Well, first off, there are two legal challenges to this property tax amendment.

The first, of course, is the fact that in the state of Florida, we have a 40 year precedent challenging when you have a requirement that's different from out of state homeowners to in-state.

So let's back up a little bit.

The actual amendment says that if you're new to Florida, that you have to wait five years before you can enjoy these tax benefits.

Well, that's that could be considered a 14th amendment equal protection clause issue because you're treating the new Florida, you know, person that's coming in differently than those that have lived there.

So there happens to be also a 40 year precedent in the state of Florida from the Florida Supreme Court saying, we don't like those time restrictions.

So that's a real big problem with that.

There's a second legal challenge to the property tax amendment, and that's the one in which I think a lot of people are sort of really kind of worried about.

And that is when you have this clear and unambiguous language requirement in the state of Florida, we know that any time you put something on a state ballot, it has to be clear and unambiguous.

Well, the ballot language actually talks about small businesses.

It talks about all sorts of things that are not actually in the amendment.

And so the legal challenges to this property tax amendment really focus on those two pieces.

And it's really setting up the state of Florida for more litigation and making the amendment very vulnerable, even if it passes.

- The lawsuit was saying that the title sounds more like a sales pitch and that the core services that's the the language spending limit and that the small business protections that.

Those are very, very vague.

- They are vague.

And that clear and unambiguous requirement.

That's what they're going after.

But listen, this is more than just that.

This is part of a legacy that this administration is sort of it's a burden on them.

You know, we saw last year with the amendment four and five, that there were state funds being used to sort of persuade voters to not vote the way the DeSantis administration wanted.

And this is looking a lot like that.

There's a lot of litigation, and this is really ripe for, I think, a real good researcher to look at the litigation costs of this amendment with the shoring up with state funds for the Fourth and Fifth Amendment from last year, looking at the kind of state funds that went into alligator, Alcatraz and the redistricting, this is all part of growing litigation that costs taxpayers money and doesn't seem to be lined up with prima facie evaluation of state and federal laws.

- Aakash, you sit on many boards.

You've been talking to a lot of the local nonprofits in terms of the impacts that this property tax removal, if it's passed, will have.

What are you hearing in the community?

- Well, I know that the Early Learning Coalition of Hillsborough County, which I chair and I've chaired for the last decade, we get funding from the Children's Board, and the Children's Board is funded from the taxes that are collected in Hillsborough County, from the property taxes; they're funding we get for our funding will get it.

For us, it means a $300,000 loss per year.

And so we're looking at how to adjust quickly if this passes.

And of course, you know what, what can we do to get outside funds to keep our services going.

And we're just one of many nonprofits that will most likely get cut because everyone across the board, things are going to get cut.

But I do think eventually if this passes, fees are still going to have to be implemented.

So, you know, for a short term, yeah, it'll probably be lower for a single family household or, you know.

But eventually I like, like, like when people cut their cable back in the day and then they have streaming services.

Now the streaming services are adding up and you're still paying what you would have paid for cable.

It's, it's shifting of the cost.

So but the Republicans right now, like you said, you know, they think this will pass.

You know, I think some of the counties in Florida that are predominantly Republican are really going to take a hit.

Smaller counties like Gilchrist or Wakulla or some of those counties that we don't think about that are Hillsborough.

I think, you know, we will take a loss, but we have other things that we could augment.

But some counties cannot.

- It used to be something that we all.

- Agreed on, both Republicans and Democrats, that we should shore up and, you know, make sure that we resource our local governments.

And so that's a real head scratcher to Rosemary.

- What were you going to say?

- Oh, I do think small town Florida is going to take a hit.

Um, unfortunately a lot of folks need property tax relief, but the small counties don't have the commercial base that the coastal communities have.

And so the commercial base is not does not get this tax relief.

The people and the people who are going to most benefit are people who've moved here recently and are paying property taxes at the value of the property today.

If you've lived in your house for 20 years, your property tax really is not that high.

Because of Save Our Homes put a cap on increases and so your.

If this goes away now, your sales tax might increase your fees to use, um, the library or the senior center or the recreational center, the local option sales tax.

There are other taxes that are going to be piled on long time homeowners, homeowners, which is why they really should think twice about it.

- One of the things that the governor has said is that this is an opportunity to look at wasteful spending in our government, and that they believe that this is enough to cover the losses.

Is that a realistic statement?

- One of the things, one of the points I'd like to make is that he really wants to roll back local, spending about five years, what it was five years ago.

Five years ago, the state budget was $91 billion.

Today, the state budget is $114 billion.

That's a 25% increase in the state budget.

And, you know, if they're asking cities and counties to cut their budgets by 25%, what about you the state?

But the reality is, since Covid, the costs of insurance, the cost of materials, the cost of labor, we all know that our own costs have gone up.

And so while the state hasn't had to tighten its belt, you tighten your belt, you know, cut the gas tax, cut the sales tax, if you want to make Florida more affordable.

But the reason the quality of our lives will be affected in our communities.

And, you know, we'll survive.

But but the amenities that we all have come to, to count on us will suffer.

- What were you going to say, Aakash?

- Yeah.

I mean, DOGE is this is what the governor created.

The governor says we were dosage before DOGE was cool.

And this is a way to cut spending.

They did find all the CFO and went around the state and found that local governments were wasteful spending funding nonprofits that didn't even exist because it was in the budget and someone kept it.

So it is one great way to clean up our wasteful spending.

- It's also a very good political football for DeSantis if he decides to make it back to the presidential race.

And I think that's what a lot of people, both Republicans and Democrats, who are dissatisfied with the fact that basic, simple services are going to be affected.

And when we have that first story where someone doesn't survive because there isn't essential services, I think it's going to sour.

- Okay, moving on to our next topic, the race to replace Governor Ron DeSantis is heating up, especially in the primary Florida Republicans could pick their nominee without holding a debate.

The state party says that only one of the four candidates has qualified.

Congressman Byron Donalds, the frontrunner, is backed by President Trump.

Party rules state that a candidate needed more than 10% in the polls, over 10,000 donors and at least $10 million raised, while Donalds was the only one to clear that bar.

But the decision is drawing criticism from within the party.

Starting at the very top, take a look.

- There should be a debate.

Having an open process and having people be able to have their say is always better than to try to try to engineer an outcome.

So what the what the party should be doing is doing what's in the best interest of Republican voters.

But the state party chairman says the governor has it wrong.

There's simply no one left to debate.

- You don't have $10 million.

You don't have 10,000 donors.

You're not really a viable, viable candidate in a state with 12 media markets.

Donald also fired back in Tampa this week.

He told WFLA News Channel eight that the rules were clear and the numbers speak for themselves.

- Look at the polling in our race.

Every public poll out there now has me in the 50s, and all these other candidates are in single digits.

I mean, look, there's no participation trophies in politics.

You have to earn your way onto the stage.

These candidates want to be able to use my campaign to help theirs.

- Other GOP gubernatorial candidates are pressuring the state party Lieutenant Governor Jay Collins, former House Speaker Paul Renner and candidate James Fischbach have all called for a debate.

So are we surprised that governor DeSantis has come out and said that the GOP party got it wrong?

- Listen, there's no love lost between governor DeSantis and Evan Power, so and one thing we need to remember is that governor DeSantis was elected.

Evan Power was not this is a two party system.

And so when you allow the political party to deny an open debate, even for its own party members.

Always been like that.

- Parties have always controlled the debates for.

Yes.

- Neutral, yes.

But the governor, DeSantis is the de facto party leader and shouldn't even power at least listen to the governor's, uh, I think, which is also representing quite a bit of voters.

We have one third of voters.

The structural advantage for Republicans is 1.5 million.

But no party affiliate or independent voters are very big in this next election, as in all elections.

But this one even more, and I think the governor is not only speaking for Republicans as the de facto head, he's also speaking for a lot of those independents who want to see Republicans actually debate.

And what is Byron Donalds afraid of?

- The party has never really controlled the debates.

It's been.

And if Byron Donalds wanted to debate, he could.

He doesn't need the party at this convention to hold the debate.

Debates were held with television stations, and they set the rules.

The Press Association used to set the rules for it.

So if he wants.

But President Trump showed us that the front runner doesn't need to debate.

And the other point I'd make is that governor DeSantis is really popular with his base, but he is not an insider with the party politics.

He's not with us, with the state party.

The Republican lawmakers in Tallahassee aren't real crazy about him.

And he's on the outs with Florida's senior senator, Rick Scott.

- It's actually interesting.

Emerson poll that just came out this week is actually showing more in favor of what governor DeSantis is saying.

They took a poll.

It looks like Republicans, independents are all favoring, you know, having, uh, dissatisfaction with the Republican Party.

Debates, help Republicans and helps independent voters get to know Republicans.

And so, you know, this may not this might be the trade wind, just like the special elections that you're seeing Republicans jump ship, you're seeing independents lean Democrat, and there's ginning up a lot of Democratic enthusiasm.

This might be the bridge too far to deny voters the ability Republican voters to select their candidates.

- Let's talk about the rules for the debate.

- Well, the chairman, power said that they couldn't find a national partner.

So to do a debate, you need a national leader.

Fox News, ABC, NBC.

- We did WJXT in Jacksonville.

This is a state race.

- But statewide partners would not agree because.

- PBS.

- On PBS.

- Have hosted tehm.

- The rules were clear, the rules were clear.

And Congressman Donalds is in the lead.

And he's right because the other three candidates haven't gotten the attention, so they're upset.

So putting them on the stage would get them the attention.

- It's a shrewd decision.

It's probably strategically a good decision, but it might backfire.

- When you run.

When you run for office.

- It won't backfire because in, you know, in the primary, everybody gets really excited about the primary.

But once it's over and now it's the general, it's a Democrat and a Republican, and everybody will rally.

The Republicans will rally around.

- Governor DeSantis point.

He has endorsed any candidate.

He I don't I mean, he's openly said he's not a fan.

Obviously, he's appointed, you know, Senator Lieutenant Governor Collins.

And he's he's been asked about Byron Donalds many times and has criticized his congressional record.

So, you know, I don't know if the.

And I don't think the governor is going to endorse James Fischbach.

So so I think the governor does kind of in the middle here.

That's why he's saying this.

- So how do we think that the Democratic candidate is looking at all of this?

- I mean, I don't think there's a race.

And that race is Congressman Jolly.

- It is Congressman.

- Jolly.

- But I think money talks and 65 million that Byron Donalds has on hand to under 10 million that David Jolly had is a real problem.

But the way that David Jolly overcomes that is he with picking Gwen Graham.

He has really stirred up a lot of enthusiasm.

And quite frankly, the fact that there aren't going to be Republican debates is what helps David Jolly because he's accessible.

- There's also the Democratic debate, so that helps him a lot more.

It was debating during Demings.

This would be an interesting conversation.

- If you're if you're a Republican.

- And you're on the fence or you're in no party affiliate, independent on the fence, you like someone who's accessible.

It's kind of is a bad sting on Byron Donalds.

It's true, because he's not going to get beat up on that debate dais with the other Republican candidates.

- But he's meeting voters one on one, which is what he's supposed to be doing right now and all candidates we're doing right now is doing it to their cameras.

- That's what a campaign is.

- And that's, that's that's the debate.

Prep is a long time.

And I think this is going to work out great for Congressman Donalds.

- All right.

So we are going to talk about alligator Alcatraz now.

[laughter] The immigration detention center known as Alligator Alcatraz now sits empty.

Federal officials say that everyone held there has been moved out, citing the start of hurricane season as the reason.

That's about 1400 people, according to the U.S.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement, that were moved out of the location.

The government won't say whether the closure is permanent.

The detention center in the middle of the Everglades still faces several legal challenges, such as those brought by environmental groups.

Critics doubt the hurricane safety explanation for moving the detainees since the camp opened in the middle of last year's storm season.

So why refer to the storm season this time around?

Rosemary, I'd like to start with you.

How do you see all of this?

- I feel like this shameful, costly experiment has finally come to an end.

And it didn't come to an end because of the unsanitary conditions or the unconstitutional treatment of immigrants.

It came to an end because of costs.

It turns out that to truck in trailers into the middle of the Everglades so that staff can live there and trucking out sewage because there's no sewage treatment facilities, is a lot more expensive than Florida thought.

They thought FEMA, the Miami Herald found document.

Got documents said FEMA expected it to be about $450 million a year.

In the first year, it's cost Florida over $1 billion, over a million and a half a year.

This is not a wise use of tax dollars.

I mean, Republicans used to be fiscal conservatives.

This spending that has been allowed by the legislature for this without the reimbursement coming in.

It's just been a well.

Well, we don't know.

We don't know how much it started, but we do not know that the billion dollars they have $680 million FEMA does as its budget for it.

So we have overspent the budget that they've committed.

- I'd just like to make the point that in the spirit of Eisenhower, you know, one investment and one thing means a lack of opportunity, cost of investing in another.

What could we have done with that money?

And how could we have helped our Florida families have a better life?

And especially if we're talking about fiscal responsibility and having the property tax on the ballot, I'm just waiting for an opposition advocacy group to tout what happened to alligator Alcatraz.

And certainly 22,000 people have worked their way through that system.

22,000 lives, the humanitarian cost, the environmental cost.

And not only that, the legacy of the DeSantis administration is really on the line here.

- On the other side of the coin, though, there are voters who supported the move to have detainees who are not in this country legally removed, and they supported the idea of the detention camp.

Aakash, when you look at that, do you think what is your what is the feedback that you're hearing.

- In the community?

It's a DeSantis victory.

We Florida that we're talking about in Florida found a spot.

They did it in eight days or something very similar.

And the attorney general and the governor was, I think it was the Attorney General Whitmire's idea to kind of bring it to Florida.

And Governor DeSantis stamped the approval.

I think it's great.

Hurricane season is real.

We're saving.

If this hurricane, which again, this season could be worse.

And we don't knock on wood, won't.

They were saving these lives and saving costs by doing it.

- It was a stunt, and it worked.

And it got him known.

It got him known state around the world.

- T-shirts, Alligator, Alcatraz, the merch is selling.

But let me just remind.

- Us has three other facilities, prisons that are as your to your point.

Yes.

Lock up those, especially the bad guys who we don't want in this country.

But there were three other prisons that are set up to to take Ice detainees.

This was a stunt in a remote location with a brazen name, and it caught the world's attention.

- The issue really is that there are those 22,000 people that have gone through those doors are unaccounted for.

There has been no transparency of where they went, what kind of aid has been given them.

And as we unravel Ravel, the litigation, it's going to cost the state of Florida quite a bit.

And I you know that victory.

That is easy to say now, except when it costs Florida taxpayers millions of dollars to defend constitutional violations.

And in seven days, there are environmental permitting processes, there are state permitting, there's federal permitting.

None of that happens.

- Just because.

- The law.

- They fast tracked it.

And again.

- That's just like they fast tracked this property tax amendment in two days.

Some of these issues that we talked about could have been addressed, but two days.

- Were being worked on the whole.

- Session.

- The rule of law belongs to both Republicans and Democrats, and I think voters are going to show up and they're going to they're going to vote wanting a rule of law.

- And isn't it fair to say that a lot of the work that goes on in the legislative sessions happens in community, in committee, happens behind the scenes.

- Yeah.

Especially the session.

The governor talked about the entire session, teased it before session, and the committees worked through it.

And then they just had a special session to knock it out.

- It doesn't seem like Republicans are really on board with this all that much.

- No, they didn't pass his plan.

- And by the way, the detainees being transferred is not equal to closing it down.

And so I think many of us are watching with concerns about the environment, concerns about restoration of the ecosystem.

When will it actually be closed down?

- Well, now it's time for our big stories of the week, when we take advantage of each of your expertise to highlight issues that our panelists know best about, and that our viewers may want to know more about.

Aakash, you have a big story that involves the Early Learning Coalition.

- Yeah, the Early Learning Coalition, as you know, we we want to make sure that every child, regardless of income level, has quality access to education.

And so we call for a business summit that we're going to host in Hillsborough County in September.

But the state has taken note and holding a summit here in Tampa on Tuesday June 23rd coming up.

And it's going to be held at the Grand Hyatt over in Rocky Point.

And the keynote speaker is Congressman Byron Donalds, whose literacy plan is to improve third grade reading levels, which, as you know, transforms a life and a family.

So hopefully the summit will take shape in June here in Tampa.

And then, of course, back in Hillsborough County, we'll see the effects.

- Tara.

- I'm looking at the US dynamic with Cuba.

We're really watching that dynamic unfold.

And whether or not Rubio and Trump will limp that process along.

You know, Cuban Americans are often thought about in the Miami area.

We have quite a large Cuban American population here in Tampa and the I-4 corridor, very much so.

And so there's a lot of Cuban Americans, especially in Florida, looking at the Freedom Accord that accord that has three promises, right?

A regime change, economic change, and making sure there's free and fair elections in Cuba, making sure there's democratic processes and a free and self-determined Cuba.

And I'm really watching.

Are we really going to do that in a timely way to help those lives that are in crisis, or are we going to hold that off to make it sort of a political surprise for September and October, especially for Republican candidates here in Florida?

And that's because we're seeing from our polling data that there's a lot of Republicans that are Cuban Americans pulling away from the Republican Party, because in December, there was a sunsetting of the Cuban Adjustment Act that fast tracked Cubans through the process as well as family unification acts.

And so we're starting to see some of our neighbors who are Cubans pulled into that immigration issue.

- So there's there's a lot to watch.

- There's a lot to watch.

And so, hey, we'll see.

- Rosemary.

- Um, after decades of stagnation, uh, things are finally happening in downtown Clearwater.

Scientology and organizations affiliated with Scientology are finally activating chunks of underused properties in downtown that will enliven the city.

There's concern that they'll make the place look like something out of The Truman Show, and the City Commission this week is finalizing a vote to give them an underused road, so that they can build the L Ron Hubbard Center.

They did this despite 8,000 citizens signing a petition in opposition.

But things are finally happening in Clearwater.

The question is, will it be for everyone?

- And this is something that the mayor and the vice mayor, Lina Teixeira, has been they've both been talking about the need to activate these properties, not just to have them sit there vacant.

- Yet Clearwater is the third largest city in Tampa Bay.

The three main counties of Tampa Bay.

And it is it's sad.

You know, you go there and there are these storefronts that are vacant and houses or buildings painted like The Truman Show.

And there's no foot traffic.

There's nobody going in and out.

Things are may well change for the better.

- Well, thank you for your time.

And thank you for joining us on the show this week.

And before we go, we'd like to recognize Juneteenth.

It marks June the 19, 1865, when word of freedom finally reached the last enslaved people in Texas, more than two years after the Emancipation Proclamation.

And there is a lesson in that delay, which is that freedom and the full telling of the story don't always arrive together.

Someone has to carry the record forward.

And that's work that's still happening right here in a 104-year-old church becoming Tampa's Black History Museum.

It's also happening in decades of the weekly challenger being digitized page by page.

So they're never lost.

And it's also happening in the Black-owned businesses riding Florida's next chapter.

Next week we'll sit down with the people doing that special work, and we certainly hope that you'll join us.

We know that you have plenty of choices for your news and information, and we thank you very much for choosing us.

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