♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Tony Richardson and Phillip Howard of the Conservation Fund next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

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♪♪ ♪♪ >> We're so pleased to welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles," Tony Richardson and Phillip Howard representing the Conservation Fund.

What is the Conservation Fund?

>> So the Conservation Fund is a national nonprofit.

We have our headquarters here in Washington, D.C., but we do work all across the country, and we're really focused on the conservation and preservation of land for conservation activities.

>> Yeah, and in addition to that great work, Um, four years ago, we started a program at the Conservation Fund called the Civil Rights People and Places Program, and I'm the program manager for that, where we work with African American heritage sites in the great state of Alabama with preservation activities there.

>> You're from Alabama.

>> I am a hometown country boy Black Belt.

>> And you're from Washington, D.C.?

>> Yes, sir.

Born and raised.

>> So, look, I've been involved in the environmental movement somewhat, uh, for decades.

Um, years ago, the Conservation Fund, the National Wildlife Federation, the Sierra Club, the Audubon Society had no people of color.

So now you guys are representing the Conservation Fund.

So there's been some progress in terms of multiracial, multicultural inclusion in the conservation movement.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So tell me, Tony, how important it is for African Americans and other communities of color to be involved in conservation work.

>> Well, I think that historically, conservation work has been focused on the birds and the bees and the rivers and the streams and large tracts of land that are in faraway places.

And so, to me, I think it's really easy to see why certain communities, particularly communities of color and highly urbanized communities, have this perception that conservation is not for us.

It does not benefit us.

It's something that happens way over there.

And I would say that a lot of times that for the majority of history, that perception has been correct.

But in the last 15 years or so, the Conservation Fund has really made that change and has continued to make that change, to really change the narrative around what conservation means.

And I think it's been supporting programs and projects that directly benefit Black and brown communities.

And to do that, you have to have folks that represent those communities.

We know representation matters, and Phillip and I bring our lived experiences into this work, and we're able to draw from those experiences and make our programs and our projects that much more inclusive, that much more diverse.

>> It's a reason that inclusivity now, it's because of your work and people like you and the work that you have led your entire life.

So it's not by a mistake that these organizations see the need for representation and adding people of color.

The mistrust in our communities, um, may not be about the word "conservation."

It may be more about the messengers that oftentimes bring those conversations to our communities.

And so we are hoping that by adding more people, including more people, the message does not get clouded by the messenger.

And so we're excited to be able to have these conversations to end that effort.

>> I find it so interesting that on a lot of the programs on "The Chavis Chronicles," we always wound up asking a question about diversity, equity and inclusion, because unfortunately, in our society, there's a sort of a step back.

What has been your experience in the Conservation Fund, to the extent to which DEI has been embraced?

>> I live in a state where, um, they just passed a bill limiting, um, DEI, but the work is still important and the work still must go on.

And so we work through that.

Um, and we put our head down and go even harder so it does not stop anything.

>> So I'm going to dig a little deeper because I know that you're from Greene County, Alabama.

>> Yes, sir.

>> That's the heart of the Black Belt.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So how does a brother wind up being a conservationist in a state like Alabama?

>> I was called a conservationist for the first time almost a year ago.

I looked around the room like, "Who are you talking about?"

I didn't even know I was a conservationist.

I really just love, love the history of the Black Belt.

>> Yes.

>> And the people of the Black Belt.

So for me, it was a personal experience.

I met Andrew Schock from the Conservation Fund, and he and I began having this conversation about African American heritage sites.

And from that very first conversation, I fell in love because I realized at that time that there was a lot of history, African American history, that was being overlooked, that was not being preserved.

There were not even conversations about it happening in our communities.

And we changed that.

Conservation and preservation can happen in our communities as well, and we need it to.

>> I think something, Phillip, really important that Phillip hit on is he's a conservationist.

But it started because of his love of history.

And so when we talk about changing the narrative around conservation and making it more culturally relevant to a broader swath of the population, I think that's what we're talking about.

It's not just hiking trails and rivers and backpacks and campgrounds, but sometimes it's history.

And how can we use our deep knowledge, our experience, our expertise and land acquisition and point that to support the preservation and permanent protection of places of notable African American history and culture?

>> Well, this intersection between conservation, preservation, history and culture, we want more and more diversity in that field.

People who want to get into the conservationist, what pathway would you suggest?

>> Growing up, I was a hyper kid.

My grandma would pick me up after school and she'd say, "Let's go in Rock Creek Park and let him run around these trees and burn some of that energy off so he's not so crazy when I have to take care of him later on this evening."

And that was really just -- it was almost -- I developed almost on a subconscious -- subconscious level, just a love for the outdoors.

I started to notice when I was stressed out about something, whatever an 8-year-old is stressed out about.

When I was stressed out about something, I could go into the outdoors and I could literally feel how it made me different, how it made me, how it changed my perspective.

And so I think it was for me, just this always having this connection to the outdoors and to nature.

And even though I had that, it actually wasn't until I was in my late 20s that I even considered a career in environmental conservation, because I had never been exposed to it.

It wasn't until I did an internship and learned what a forester was, learned what an environmental scientist was, learned what a landscape architect was that I said, "Oh, man, there's this tremendous career space over here that I haven't even explored that, one, gives me a great opportunity to provide for my family, but also to support my community."

And I really was drawn into that.

I also would say that a lot of the work that the Conservation Fund is doing around engaging young people, and we are constantly trying to expose them to these jobs and expose them to potential careers in conservation at an earlier age.

So they're not like me and getting into their 20s before they have this epiphany that this is something that they really want to pursue in their lives.

>> How long have you been doing this?

>> I started when I was 15, actually doing trail work here in Rock Creek Park.

So I would go out and I would help maintain the trails, walk back the trees, all types of things like that.

And actually, the very first summer I did it here in D.C., I hated it.

I thought, "What am I doing out here?"

I saw my friends who had office jobs, they're in the A.C., uh, you know, and I'm out here in Rock Creek Park.

It's Washington, D.C.

There's mosquitoes everywhere.

It's 200 degrees outside.

The humidity is tropical.

It feels like we're in a tropical rainforest."

Um, and as I went through that process, after that, I really started reflecting on that and realizing how much, in fact, I did love it and went on to do that same summer program for four more years.

>> How do you see the engagement happening?

Are African-Americans and other communities of color responding to the opportunities that the Conservation Fund, Phillip?

>> People, what I found, they want people to respect what has happened.

These communities, these people, these places, these sites, they changed America forever.

You have to think, and I know you know better than I, um, it was just 59 short years ago that there were no African American voters in Lowndes County, even though it was predominantly Black.

There were very few voters in any of those communities in 1965, just 59 short years ago.

Today, that's different.

And that wasn't given.

That was earned, every inch.

Everything that African Americans have today was earned, and it was earned by people in those communities in Alabama in the Black Belt.

Regardless of who comes to this space, you're never bigger than the history.

You're never bigger than the story.

You're never bigger than the people who were there.

And we present that as coming from a place of humility, a place of understanding, a place of thank you, of thanking them for what they did.

And we've been able to bring partners to the table that had never been at the table.

We've been able to have conversations with communities that had never talked to each other about how they could work, um, in a collective space with one voice, uplifting this story and making sure that it's not forgotten.

And, um, I love the people I work with.

They're my family.

And so it's like going home every day.

>> What could other communities learn from the success in Alabama, the success in Washington in terms of entering into conservation work and preservation work as a career?

>> Oftentimes it's the case in rural communities across the country.

As you graduate high school and you leave because there's just not the opportunities there.

You want to go to college, military and things like that.

We're trying to present this as a way for you to stay home.

If you have to go away to school, go away to school.

But there are opportunities for you to come back home if you choose to.

There are, um, there -- Alabama has, I think, over 77,000 miles of waterways, you know, so there is a lot to do.

Even in historic preservation, there is -- There's enough work for everyone, um, to do.

And so we try to make sure that we tell those stories of opportunities, about how if you're looking for a career, think about this.

This could serve your community if you're looking for a job.

And so we've kind of taken it from that perspective.

>> So I know there's somewhat of a reverse migration going on now.

People from the inner cities in the northeast are trying to get back south, trying to get back home farming.

So how do you work with minority-owned farmers, particularly Black farmers, uh, across the country, but particularly in the South?

>> I have one particular project that I am super excited about with farmers.

Um, it involves the campsites of the Selma to Montgomery march.

Three Black farmers that allowed the marchers to stay on their property, um, during the Selma to Montgomery march.

>> Highway 80 from Selma to Montgomery.

>> The Hall family, the Steele family, and the Gardner family, They owned the farms in 1965.

After the march, they were retaliated against.

One of the homes burned down.

A store burned down on one of the properties.

They still own the farms today.

And so one of the ways that we help those farmers was we help them share their story in a film called "54 Miles to Home," where for the very first time, these families talk about their experience and what we've tried to do in helping them think about, "Well, what does your farm look like 5, 10 years from now?"

And we try to develop strategies and sustainability programs to help them think about that.

There's a lot of issues with heirs' property, with farms, and particularly with African American farms.

So we try to walk them through how to deal with -- I think one farm has 150 heirs.

How do you deal with that number of family members who all have different opinions?

And so we try to provide services and technical assistance in that area.

>> And the challenge is because it's heir property, if all of the persons listed don't agree, then the probate court takes over and the probate court takes 30% of the proceeds.

>> And I would also just add at the Conservation Fund, we also have a program called our Working Farms Fund.

And this program, again, using our -- our sophisticated land acquisition services, we are helping farmers actually purchase land and own that land, not just a land lease, not just a 10- or 50-year agreement, but outright own it.

And so I think not only is that helping to obviously provide resources, technical expertise, but it's also helping to grow generational wealth.

>> Look, what you just said, I know people watching, their antenna just went up.

How do you get in touch with such a fund to help you secure farmland?

>> I would say the first step is to go to our website, theconservationfund.org, and I would look up our Working Farms Fund program.

We have program officers right now that are working in the Midwest, that are working up and down the East Coast, that would be happy to connect with folks and let them know how they can get more involved in the program.

>> One of the fun parts of doing this work are the commemorative events that we are a part of.

And these events are not just local.

These events impacted America, Alabama, African Americans, White, the world.

Most people who've never been to America have heard of Selma.

And so we're trying to make sure that as we conserve these spaces, we commemorate and we honor these spaces.

It feels great to do things like that in addition to acquiring and helping acquire space.

>> In your work, have you detected that preservation and conservation widens the opportunity for economic development among communities of color?

>> In Alabama, in several of the cities where this history lives, you will see a tour bus come and people will get off for five minutes and get back on the bus and go to the next stop.

What we're trying to develop is an opportunity for local business owners to be able to engage the tourists who come to these communities.

Most of the time, because of the conditions of the space, you can't really get out and visit and be able to spend dollars in these communities.

You're there for a little while and then you're gone.

So we're developing or helping the communities to develop a strategy of how to better provide an experience for the tourists when it comes to these small communities.

So you're able to connect and work together where you may have one entrepreneur that has a kitchen that cooks or has a restaurant, well, that person needs to work with the person who invited the tourists in.

And so you stop.

So you're building connections in the communities to provide that economic development where you have the tourist operators talking to the restaurants, talking to the churches, talking to the local municipality about how to capitalize on the people who are going to come and who come now.

So that's part of what we're trying to do as well.

Build those relationships.

>> There's a economic theory about the circulation of the dollar.

>> Yes, sir.

>> More than one time or several times in one's community.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Leveraging those preservation projects, leveraging those preservation opportunities allows for more greater opportunities for equitable economic development.

But I would also say that, you know, again, the Conservation Fund, our bread and butter has been land acquisition.

And so around my programs, urban conservation, one of the things we're starting to look at is, is there a role for us to play around affordable housing?

We have a partner down in Durham, the Durham Community Land trustees, that are looking at this as well.

We're partnered together and looking at kind of the nexus of urban conservation and affordable housing.

And what they are really looking at is just because someone lives in affordable housing, just because someone lives in subsidized housing does not mean that they do not want the same quality of life benefits that everyone wants -- Walkable neighborhoods, a great park in your neighborhood where you can take your kids to play, where you can have a picnic, um, um, clean air and clean water in their communities.

And so, again, I think that it's the economic benefits that these types of projects can provide back, but it's also those quality of life benefits that these types of projects, whether it's a cultural and historical preservation project, whether it's a park project, whether it's a farm project, I think we are constantly looking at how do we maximize the bottom line and the return that is going back to communities.

>> Well, you both have described what's known as sustainability, and it seems to me the great work that you do at the Conservation Fund, you're really expanding opportunities for people to not underestimate what they already have in their hand and to develop it.

Before we end, I'm going to ask both of you one simple question.

What gives you your greatest hope?

>> I have three kids that I love and that, um, that I want this history to be around for them.

Um, you know, they're growing up in a different time than I did, um, where having these types of discussions are not popular.

Um, they're -- they're -- but they're needed.

And so I just think for me, thinking about the importance of what this history did and what that looks like moving forward, and to me, what it looks like is a preserved... we commemorate, we honor, and we find ways to make sure that the stories and the places that impact us and that will impact us until we're no longer here.

Um, we stand on the shoulders of giants.

And we have a duty.

We have -- we have a responsibility.

And it's not just us because we're in conservation.

We all do.

Um, we all look at -- We all benefited from it.

Certainly, if you're an African American, there's no question that you benefited from what happened in these communities.

And so in essence, like you mentioned, the reverse migration, um, we're asking people to come home and appreciate, um, the things and the places that you probably drove by at some point and didn't even know it was there.

But if you knew that a meeting happened in 1955, in this church on Hope Street in Montgomery, that elected Dr. King to his first leadership position, and from that perch, he would go on to be, even to this day, one of the most admired men in the world from a little, small church room in Montgomery, introduced to the world on December 5, 1955, at Hope Street Baptist Church.

5,000 people came and listened to him.

So I'm just hopeful that we will understand that if it's really not for us, it's for our children, it's for the future.

And so I'm just excited about it.

And I appreciate the Conservation Fund, because I was in law enforcement up until four years ago, was not even thinking about this.

And I met a person that you may know, um, Charles person.

>> Yes.

>> I met Mr.

Person, and he changed my life.

He's such an amazing man.

And being in spaces where he was and understanding his story, uh, it you become humble.

I'm 6'3".

Um, I'm a marine.

I feel small in these rooms with these people.

And so we -- It's an honor to be in this space.

And I'm appreciative of the Conservation Fund for leaning into it and wanting to be a part of this conversation.

>> Well, I'm sure your three children like having a father like you.

Tony, what gives you your greatest hope today?

>> Um, I think something that we touched on at the beginning of -- of this -- of this, uh, of this meeting.

Um, when I first started doing this work, you know, I started out when I was 15, as I said, doing trail work.

And through that, I've had the opportunity to go to different events and different training programs and different -- just, just different opportunities have been provided to me.

And I noticed at a young age that there weren't a lot of people that looked like me in the room.

And I think what gives me hope is that every year that I continue going to these events and these opportunities and these summits and these conferences, I'm seeing more and more people that represent the diversity of this country.

And I think that that's super important.

And just like Phillip, I congratulate the Conservation Fund on helping to change the narrative around conservation and making it more relevant to Black and brown communities and to indigenous folks and to all types of different communities because, again, I think that's really what we need.

Conservation is supposed -- These lands, these efforts are supposed to benefit everyone.

And so we need to have everyone at the table, including those folks that have historically had limited voices, have not had a seat at the table.

So for me, it's just great to see those folks finally getting a seat at the table.

It's great to see the conservation movement diversifying, because I think if we really want to do something, if we want to change, if we want to do something new, then we have to try stuff that we haven't tried before.

We have to try something new.

>> Tony Richardson, Phillip Howell of the Conservation Fund, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having us.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, visit our website at... Also follow us on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following... At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo, the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/ apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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