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- [Reporter] Coming up next, "Florida ranks 50th in teacher pay," according to a new study, but it does get high marks for its K through college education system.

The St. Petersburg City Council gets more details about the Ray's baseball stadium proposal and Florida sunshine laws are again under attack.

Political insights next on "Florida This Week."

(upbeat glorious music) (upbeat glorious music continues) (upbeat glorious music ends) Welcome back.

Joining us on the panel this week, Maya Brown is a political consultant and a democrat.

April Schiff is a consultant with Strategic Solutions of Florida and the Hillsborough Republican State Committee woman.

Colleen Wright is the St. Petersburg Reporter for the Tampa Bay Times.

And Darryl Paulson is the Emeritus Professor of Government and Politics at the University of South Florida in St. Petersburg.

And nice to have you all here.

Nice to see you.

- Thanks for having us.

- It's good to be here.

- Well, there were two significant Florida education stories this week.

- [Reporter] First on Florida teacher pay.

The National Education Association issued a report showing that Florida ranks 50th in the nation for average teacher's salaries.

The NEA looked at all 50 states and the District of Columbia, only West Virginia ranked worse.

Pre-K through college teachers in Florida make an average of $53,000 a year.

NEA data shows the national average is more than $19,000 higher at just over $69,500.

Starting teacher pay in our state is just over $47,000 a year on average.

The report shows that both starting teacher pay and average teacher pay come in far below what's considered a livable wage in Florida which is $58,970.

While average teacher pay in Florida's almost dead last compared to the rest of the country, our education system received high marks this week from US News and World Report.

That report says that for the second year in a row, Florida is one of the top states for education in both pre-K through 12th grade and for colleges and universities.

Utah had the best overall system in the country.

Florida came in number nine.

Florida ranked high when it came to timely graduation among students pursuing two and four-year degrees at public institutions.

Also in-state tuition for our public colleges and universities was on average the lowest in the country.

Our high school graduation rate came in better than the national average.

The report was based on data collected from recent surveys compiled over a three-year period.

- So Maya, let's start with teacher pay.

We have reports out from the Florida Department of Education.

We have a 4,700 person teacher shortage in Florida.

NEA says the shortage is higher, they say it's 7,500, we don't know where it is, but somewhere between 4,700 and 7,500.

Is teacher pay dissuading people from joining the ranks of teachers here in Florida?

- Absolutely, and I've sat at this table before.

I come from a long line of educators.

I'm an educator myself, so this topic certainly means a lot to me personally.

And the fact that, like we said at the beginning of this story, that it is not a livable wage for teachers right now.

You know, if you take that $47,000 a year and break it up into each month, that's only $3,900 a month where rent is skyrocketed through the roof.

Most folks now, the teachers, 60% of their income will just be on a place to live.

That's not including utilities, lights, water, WiFi, all of these things.

And in addition to the fact that a lot of teachers are coming out of their own pockets to make sure that their students have supplies.

So absolutely, it is a deterrent when we're seeing both the attraction to recruiting folks to become teachers in our public schools.

And then the other piece is that making sure that we are retaining them.

This is an issue we need to address.

We saw a bill come up this legislative session.

That did not pass.

I don't even believe that I went to committee.

And we've also tried in Hillsborough different ways and mechanics to make this, to solve this issue with referendum and all these other things before.

And so, we have to make sure not only that our state budget takes care of teachers, like we say that we love teachers here in this state, but this is something that's gotta change to make sure that we keep our best and brightest.

- April on the other side, US News and World Report says that "We have a really good education system here in Florida."

First of all, what did US News and World Report say?

And I'm sure I know the governor's people are really happy about this report.

- Absolutely.

And they should be.

See, the US news and World Report ranked Florida in number one in higher level education and number 10 in K through 12 education, both of which are phenomenally great 'cause that's across the entire country, right?

But this is a result of many years of legislation that started with the Jeb Bush Initiatives in education years ago.

And Governor Bush still maintains an interest and support in the education system as well through his foundation.

But we've seen the legislature continue to refine and refresh and make sure that we have the resources necessary to educate our students.

There's no question that we probably should be doing a lot better for our teachers.

And part of that is simply an allocation of resources.

I think in a lot of counties, we have some very heavy administrative fees that are going on, and we're spending too much in the administrative area versus on the teachers.

And so, that could definitely be an improvement.

- So Darryl, the question is how could both be right?

How could we have a good education system and underpaid teachers?

- Well, it depends how you're measuring it.

Who's measuring it?

And you know, it's not a mystery.

We've only got one standard, so to speak.

I mean, here's one institution, US News and World Report, that comes out with a claim.

What other studies have been done?

What do they conclude with respect to teacher's salaries in the state of Florida?

And if you look at other studies, I think you'll get a little bit different picture.

It's also the question of academic freedom.

There's an issue where Florida has been blasted all over the place for lack of academic freedom.

You know, within the past year, they've completely revamped a New College of Florida.

They changed it from one of the outstanding Liberal Arts programs in the country and remade it into a conservative institution.

Now, you can say they have the right to do that, but you know, there's an anomaly when you've got the highest paid university president in the Florida state system managing New College, which is the smallest college in the system.

And yet, he gets more money than any other president in the state of Florida.

To me, that doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't seem reasonable.

Why is that happening?

Is that a good use of resources?

Why does Corcoran get so much money when teachers both at the university and the K through 12 level get so little money?

- Maya, one of the big indicators in the US News and World Report is that we have a really good high school graduation rate in the state of Florida.

That is an accomplishment.

But what would you say about the rest of the system?

I mean, if that is one important indicator, are there other indicators that you would look at to see whether or not our education system is working?

- I think the main indicator is making sure that we abide by the Florida Constitution.

We went to the ballot many years ago to make sure that we dedicated funding resources to make sure that we are funding K through 12, excuse me, just public education in the state of Florida.

And I don't believe that we have abided by that and actually spoken to and the legislature hasn't done what the will of the voters was when it comes to funding for public schools.

And also, we see it every year where there's a privatization priority to take money from public schools and give it to charters to privatization of schools in that way.

But I will say when it comes to higher ed, we have three preeminent institutions here in the state of Florida on the way to the fourth.

And so, we are seeing fantastic outcomes on the post-secondary attainment level.

But we certainly need to make sure that we have a pipeline that students are prepared to go to college.

- I wanna ask all three of you what's the trend too?

Because these numbers from the US News and World Report are over the last three years.

So is the trend, are we going in the right direction, or is the trend that we're going in the wrong direction when it comes to things like higher education?

and I'll, April.

- Well, Florida I think has truly gone in the right direction for several years and we're continuing that trajectory.

So, and we're seeing it when we see these types of results because we haven't had that forever.

And so, I think absolutely going in the right direction.

- What's the trend, Darryl, in in your mind?

- It's the wrong direction, sorry.

(Rob and April laugh) I mean it can't be in the right direction when Florida's doing the things that they're doing, you know, completely restructuring an entire university system, abandoning one or a number of different academic programs, telling teachers that they can't teach certain subjects in school.

I taught Florida politics for a long time.

I doubt that I could teach that anymore because I talk about race relations which is suddenly somehow taboo in the state of Florida.

So it's not just the question of how much you spend in graduation rates, it's what you teach those students.

But even when you look at the financial aspect, Florida starts out pretty good financially.

Beginning teachers in Florida ranked number 16 on average paid, making $47,000 a little bit over.

But if you look at the national teacher salaries, the average for teachers across the nation, the national average for teachers is $69,544.

In Florida, they're making $53,000, so they're about $16,000 under.

So if you just compare where teachers start in Florida at 47,000 and then the, or the average for teachers in Florida, they only move from 47,000 to 53,000, which says, obviously, once they have you, they're not gonna pay you.

You're gonna get minimal raises, and that means great attrition of teachers.

- Maya.

- Yeah, and I, just to add, you know, April mentioned that most of the money is being focused in admin, and I'd push back on that.

I know so many folks who are in administrative positions in our public schools who go back and get higher education degrees, masters becomes guidance counselors and also become assistant principals.

And that stipend is not filling the gap between the $47,000 and the 65 that we're seeing in other states.

So we have all these people who are pursuing higher education degrees, who are stepping into these roles that we need them in administration, and they still aren't able to pay their rent.

- One last question.

That is even Tallahassee has acknowledged that there is a teacher shortage, and we've gotta get more teachers into the system.

We do have low pay according to this study.

The idea a few years ago was to allow veterans who had completed their military service to come into the system and become teachers without going through a lot of the hoops and the regulations, but the numbers are really low.

Only a few dozen military veterans have come into the system.

What does that say when veterans who have a, you know, presumably have a few more years left in their working life have decided they don't wanna join the ranks of teachers here in Florida?

- Well, it means that system doesn't work.

That program doesn't work.

And if you really want good quality teachers both to hire them and to retain them, you've gotta pay them.

And what we're seeing in Florida is they don't continue to pay them once they hire them.

And so, the teachers leave, and you start all over again with new teachers.

You got constantly have this influx of teachers leaving and new teachers to be found.

And that's why we've got a shortage of 4,000 teachers in the state.

The Florida Education Association has asked the Florida legislature to increase funding for education by $2.5 billion this upcoming session.

Will that happen?

I doubt it.

- All right, well, the St. Petersburg City Council held a marathon session on Thursday.

The meeting was called to discuss plans to redevelop the area around the proposed new raised baseball stadium.

A vote on the proposed deal is likely to happen in two months and with us right now is Colleen Wright who covered the marathon meeting.

You survived it.

- I did, I did.

(Rob laughs) I got there at 8:30.

We had an hour, about an hour break at noon, and it ended shortly after 6:00 PM.

- [Maya] Oh.

my goodness.

- So, the St Pete City Council's key to this.

They've gotta approve this, so does the Pinellas County Commission.

What's your sense of, based on the questions that were asked on Thursday, what's your sense about council members?

Where are they headed?

- So the meeting started off kind of intense.

You had stadium critics kind of take the mic early and ask some pretty pointed questions and the lawyers for the city and their outside counsel didn't really seem super prepared at first.

You had Richie Floyd going in there who on principle believes that, you know, private corporations shouldn't be subsidized by the public, especially when it comes to stadiums and sports facilities.

And then you had Lisset Hanewicz, who is a former federal prosecutor.

So she put her prosecutor hat on and pretty quickly picked apart some of the language in the document that had a lot of loopholes in it.

And Richie did the same going chapter and verse, picking apart these agreements.

That intensity kind of subsided after everybody had a chance.

You know, it lasted nine hours, so everyone had a chance to ask questions, but the intensity subsided, and I didn't count four unhappy council members yesterday.

I think the votes are there to make this happen, but there's still a lot of runway.

There's supposed to be another workshop in two weeks to go over the stadium, specifically.

The meeting we just had was just on the redevelopment around the stadium.

But the meeting that was supposed to happen two weeks from now has been postponed with no date.

So that will likely push official votes on the matter to July, kind of drawing out this process even more.

And I guess you could view it two ways.

You could view it as maybe due diligence is happening, they're trying to get it right.

Or you could be, if you're maybe for the stadium, you might be a little nervous that things aren't kind of tied up by now since the deal was announced since September.

- If you were to summarize the pro side, and the folks who are really in favor of this deal, what are the best arguments for the stadium and what are the best arguments for you heard from the anti side and the council members are, I mean, there's only one or two council members who've kind of expressed a concern prior to this.

- Yeah, I would say there's about three council members who have really kind of been open to much louder than the other one.

But there are, I would say, solidly three to four council members who are in favor, and they look at this as kind of a deal that kind of fires on all cylinders.

It's not perfect, but it's not meant to address every single problem in St. Petersburg.

That's how they look at it.

They look at it as a deal that keeps the Rays in St. Petersburg.

Has the Rays, at least, paying for half of the stadium?

Has a cohesive vision for the 65, well, really altogether, you know, 80-some acres for the redevelopment that at least, you know, if you were to put it out to market, like some critics say it would look piecemeal and not like a cohesive vision?

There's a lot of other parts of the deal that are pretty attractive, like for example, building the first African-American History Museum in Florida built for the purpose of being an African-American museum.

There's some affordable housing.

There's much needed office space.

The vacancy rates in St. Petersburg are very low.

So some people look at this and say, you know, this is a pretty good deal.

It kind of touches on a lot of points.

It's better than it maybe going back out to get bids.

And then you're stuck with 80, you know, 82 acres of asphalt for and who knows how long.

- Yeah, and the group supposed include No Home Run, Faith in Florida, League of Women Voters, the St. Pete's Tenants Union, and the Sierra Club.

And why are they opposed and why are the city council people those two or three expressing skepticism?

- Yeah, so, that's also, there are a lot of groups out there who were out there protesting.

When I went in at 8:30, there was about 25 to 30 people, and some are opposed the deal as it is now.

And I would say a lot of those folks, they might not, I don't know if oppose is the right word.

They just want the deal to be fixed or get or you kind of squeeze the deal to get it to the best part.

You know, the critics of the deal say that there have been decades of studies that show that public investment into sports stadiums is not good for a society.

It doesn't net a good return for what is being invested.

A lot of people say that the deal is lopsided, that, you know, the city is still on the hook for 130, really $142 million of infrastructure that the Rays and their development partner Heinz could actually turn around and sell that land.

The city is also going out for bonds on, for actually on the behalf of the team and on the county to pay for this when there are other needs in the city that the city that could be addressed, for example, storm water and wastewater systems, these are aging systems.

We've seen the footage in flood-prone neighborhoods, like Shore Acres and Riviera Bay, that homes are being reflooded once, twice, three times- - [Rob] Every storm.

- within a span of one or two years.

- Yeah.

- So it's a matter of priorities for a lot of people and I think it comes down to what is everyone willing to live with and what's it worth.

- All right, so Darryl and April, I wanna ask you, what's your take on the proposal as it is on the table to build this new stadium and redevelop the area around it?

And April, let's start with you.

- Well, I would say kudos to Mayor Welch and to this city council because this has gone on for 15 years.

Other mayors, both in Tampa and St. Petersburg, have failed to get it this far.

And the Rays have been a huge asset to this community, and we should continue to support them.

It's a prime example of a public-private partnership, and it should be a cohesive, transformational process that's gonna happen to St. Petersburg.

It's gonna be fabulous.

- And Darryl, the opponents say, "This is a bailout for billionaires"?

What's your take on it?

- This is a bailout for billionaires.

(Rob and April laugh) "The past is present," they say, so look what happened the first time around.

Now, all sorts of promises were made, all sorts of promises were not met.

That's gonna be the real issue this time.

You've got some of the same groups, surprisingly backing this when they got shafted the first time around, like the NAACP, there are gonna be all sorts of jobs created for African-Americans since this was an African-American area that was torn down and yet, that didn't happen.

You also have to remember that politicians, whether at the city council level or the congress level, have what I call an edifice complex.

They like to build things and leave legacies to themselves.

So they can say, when I was in Congress or when I was on the city council, we did this and we built a stadium, and they can pat themselves on the back.

Well, that's fine, but what if this goes belly up, you know?

They're projecting 7% returns on their investment from this tax area.

What if that doesn't happen?

What if there's a tornado?

What if, you know, something drastic happens that they just don't anticipate?

- Colleen, quickly, when's the next meeting on this issue, at the St. Pete City Council?

- Ooh, we don't know.

We don't know.

They postponed the next meeting on the stadium with no date set.

So I'm sure it might be rescheduled maybe for early June, which is when official votes were supposed to take place, which would actually decide if the Rays are here to stay or not.

We're maybe, so we'll meet again maybe, probably in June, again, I don't know.

Not for sure, with votes, maybe going over to July.

- Okay, all right.

Well, does the Office of Florida Governor have an executive privilege which gives the governor the power to withhold public records?

- [Reporter] Florida has a strong set of so-called, Sunshine Laws, that make most government records and documents accessible to the public, unless they are specifically exempted.

This week in Tallahassee, an attorney for the governor argued that "The governor does have the right to use executive privilege to keep documents secret whose disclosure would threaten the confidentiality that is necessary to perform an enumerated constitutional duty."

It's a case involving a public information request for the names of the people who discussed with the governor whom to appoint to the Florida Supreme Court.

That request is based on an August, 2022 interview in which, DeSantis, told conservative commentator, Hugh Hewitt, that a group of six or seven pretty big legal conservative heavyweights helped him screen candidates for the Florida Supreme Court.

A lower court is already sided with the governor saying he does have an executive privilege allowing him to keep the name secret.

But that decision is being appealed.

The attorney representing the person who made the public records request said that the Sunshine Law amendment passed by Florida voters in 1992 does not include an exemption for the governor's records and that no other chief executive in the state's history has invoked such an exemption.

If DeSantis wins in the courts, it would give him and future governors power to potentially allow him to conceal a broad range of government records from the public eye.

- Darryl, does the governor, under current Florida constitution, have an executive privilege to withhold these kind of records?

- No and no, it just doesn't exist.

It's trying to be created in the minds of judicial officials.

There was a lower court judge who issued the ruling saying that the executive privilege applied and the governor didn't have to turn over this information.

That's been appealed to a higher court, district court of appeals, because they believe that there is no such thing as executive privilege.

What DeSantis has done is to join forces with two of the least reliable figures in American politics, Richard Nixon and Donald Trump.

Richard Nixon used executive privilege during the Watergate years to justify not turning over the tapes.

And that was the big question before the United States Supreme Court and Donald Trump, of course, as he used executive privilege for everything, saying, he doesn't have to turn over everything.

Florida has long had this process of open things to the public, let the people know.

That's a good policy.

Florida was a state since 1845.

There's never been any executive privilege as part of turning over public documents.

So it just doesn't exist and judges shouldn't create it.

They have no right to do so.

The public in 1992 voted to have open records in the state of Florida.

- April, you're holding your breath.

I think you wanna say something?

What would you say about this?

(laughs) - Trump derangement syndrome has hit Tampa today.

This is about the governor and you know, for years and years and years, probably from the beginning of time, governors have consulted with people that they trust because they can't possibly know everybody in the state of Florida to make these types of decisions for appointments.

And it's appointments across the board for every board council directorship and the courts as well.

But that's historically has always happened on both sides of the aisle as the governors seek input from those who know their candidates.

- [Rob] But should it be secret?

- Should it be secret or not?

That depends I think on how it's done.

There's a lot of questions in this case about how the request was made.

The fact that the person who is, had made the request and has filed the lawsuit has remained anonymous as well.

- [Rob] His name is secret.

- Should that be secret?

- [Rob] Yeah.

- Okay?

We're talking about secrets.

If he wants things to be out in the public, let's hear who he is, okay?

- [Rob] Okay.

- Or she, whichever the case may be.

- All right.

- So.

- Well, before we go, what other news story should we be paying attention to?

Maya, let's start with you.

Your other big story of the week.

- Listen, our former governor, current US Senator, Rick Scott, took a trip to New York this week to stand next to former President Donald Trump, but all I have to say is birds of a feather, right?

They're flocking.

- All right, April, you have the big story.

- More Trump derangement syndrome.

- It's happening everywhere.

- But it's happening, it's getting very heavy here in Tampa today.

RPO of the Republican Party of Florida at its meeting of executive board last weekend, Saturday morning, passed a resolution to oppose amendments three and four, the amendments on marijuana and the amendments on abortion.

That'll be on the ballot in November.

And that resolution also included supporting the other four amendments that will be on the ballot as well in November.

- Okay, Colleen, your other big story.

- I'm always gonna plug my own work.

We have a lot to look into from the meeting that just took place, so we'll be following up in the coming weeks.

- I saw your, a quote from you in the fundraising for the Tampa Bay Times this week as they do their fundraising to try to enhance their journalism.

- That's right.

And if you are interested in our work, please make a donation.

We appreciate it.

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- I'm a subscriber.

- Thank you.

- All right, Darryl, your other big story.

- Well, I've been hitting on DeSantis, so I might as well continue the trend.

DeSantis is talking up the fact that he's got the Florida universities under control.

It's not just the question of funding, but the riots taking place, as he calls them, at Florida's universities.

And he said that "The universities can't control the rioters, then we'll find other people who can control it."

And in fact, he called the people who protested, "joining a sheik cause and spouting utter nonsense."

I would ask the governor who said, you know, "They can't occupy property or anything like this and almost can't question authority," what would happen in the American Revolution if he applied the same standard?

You know, would he support the king?

You can't oppose the king, you know, because everyone is a subject to the king, so just doesn't make sense to me.

You've gotta have more freedom.

You've gotta let protests take place, and you can't just say, "It's because people are idiots."

- All right, well thank you all for a vigorous discussion.

I really appreciate having you here.

Our guests, were Maya Brown, April Schiff, Colleen Wright, and Darryl Paulson.

If you have comments about this program, please send them to us at FTW@wedu.org.

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From all of us here at WEDU, have a happy Mother's Day and a great weekend.

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