>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP -- >> WE NEED MEGAN OTHER NATURE TE US A BREAK.

>> DANGEROUS WINDS THREATEN TO UNDO PROGRESS ALREADY MADE.

>>> AND TRUMP'S 24-HOUR DETROIT LION FOR ENDING RUSSIA'S UKRAINE WAR SLIPS.

FOREIGN POLICY EXPERT ROBERT KAGAN ON WHAT LOSING KYIV TO PUTIN WOULD MEAN FOR TRUMP, FOR AMERICA, AND FOR THE WORLD.

>>> THEN -- >> WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.

YOU'RE VERY YOUNG.

I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU.

>> I THINK I HAVE POWER OVER YOU.

I CAN MAKE ONE CALL AND YOU WOULD RISK EVERYTHING.

>> "BABY GIRL," WRITER/DIRECTOR HALYNA RAIN JOINS ME ON HUR BOLD FILM STARRING NICOLE KIDMAN ABOUT RECLAIMING FEMALE SEXUALITY.

>>> PLUS -- PORCELAIN WAR.

DOCUMENTARY DIRECTORS TALK TO US ABOUT CREATING BEAUTY IN THEIR SCARRED COUNTRY.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

THE WINDS ARE PICKING UP AGAIN IN CALIFORNIA, AND THE DEATH TOLL IS RISING IN WHAT COULD BE THE STATE'S WORST WILDFIRES EVER.

IT'S AN ALL-OUT RACE AGAINST THE ENVIRONMENT.

FIREFIGHTERS ARE BATTLING TO KEEP THE BLAZES CONTAINED AND MAINTAIN WHAT PROGRESS THEY'VE MADE IN THE POST FEW DAYS.

MORE THAN 20 PEOPLE ARE CONFIRMED DEAD, DOZENS MORE ARE MISSING.

OVER 100,000 ARE UNDER EVACUATION ORDERS, AND THOUSANDS OF HOMES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.

THESE PARENTS LOST EVEN THE MOST PERSONAL KEEPSAKES AND MEMORIES OF THEIR LATE DAUGHTER.

>> WE HAD A DAUGHTER 5 YEARS AGO.

SHE'D BE 15.

SHE PASSED AWAY WHEN SHE WAS 1.

HER ASHES WERE IN OUR HOME.

AND -- THEY'RE GONE.

LIKE EVERY MEMORY, EVERY PIECE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF HER LIFE IS JUST GONE.

>> IT'S UNTHINKABLE.

LET'S GO TO VERONICA MIRACLE IN ALTADENA FOR US.

VERONICA, YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD THOSE PARENTS WHO HAVE LOST EVEN THE ASHES OF THEIR LATE DAUGHTER.

TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE VICTIMS AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING WHERE YOU ARE.

>> Reporter: JUST ABSOLUTE DEVASTATION HERE IN ALTADENA.

THIS WHOLE AREA IS RAVAGED, AND WE'RE SEEING BLOCK AFTER BLOCK OF HOMES COMPLETELY INCINERATED.

WE SEE CHIMNEYS STANDING IN SOME AREAS AND SOME OF THE FOUNDATIONS, BUT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.

IF YOU LOOK INSIDE OF THIS CAR HERE, YOU CAN SEE THE OUTSIDE OF IT.

BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW HOT THAT THESE FIRES BURNED BECAUSE EVERYTHING INSIDE HAS BEEN BURNED TO ASH.

AND WHAT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE ABOUT THESE FIRES AND JUST SHOWS HOW PRECARIOUS THE WINDS WERE, ALL OF THESE HOMES BEHIND US ARE BURNED TO THE GROUND.

BUT RIGHT OVER THIS WAY, A HOME STILL STANDING.

SO IT'S REALLY -- IF YOU'RE LUCKY, THE HOME STAND.

SO MUCH HAS TO DO WITH JUST HOW THE FIRE IS MOVING.

RIGHT NOW IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE CREWS HERE, SOCAL EDISON CREWS, TRYING TO GET POWER LINES BACK UP.

REALLY THE EFFORT NOW IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS SAFE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN COME BACK IN AND TEND TO WHAT IS LEFT OR TO SEE IF THEIR HOUSE IS STILL HERE.

BUT THEN AFTER THAT BEGINS THE CLEANUP.

A FEMA ADMINISTRATOR TELLING CNN TODAY THAT IT WILL LIKELY TAKE ABOUT SIX MONTHS TO GET EVERYTHING CLEANED UP BECAUSE ALL OF THE TOXIC ASH IS NOW SEEPING INTO THE SOIL.

THEY WILL HAVE TO COMPLETELY REMOVE FOUNDATIONS OF HOMES.

THESE ARE THOUSANDS OF HOMES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

SO JUST SIX MONTHS -- RATHER SIX MONTHS OF CLEANUP, AND THEN AFTER THAT HOW WILL THESE COMMUNITIES REBUILD?

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE BRINGING UP AT THESE COMMUNITY MEETINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> YOU KNOW, VERONICA, IT SOUND ALMOST EVEN TOO BIG TO DEAL WITH.

AND I WONDER WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING INCLUDING FIRE-FIGHTING OFFICIALS AND OTHERS THAT EVEN THE PROGRESS THEY MIGHT HAVE MEEFRD THE DAYS -- MADE OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS MAY BE THREATENED TONIGHT AND TOMORROW BY MORE HIGH WINDS.

>> Reporter: YEAH, THERE ARE MAJOR CONCERNS FOR THIS NEXT WIND EVENT.

WINDS HAVE ALREADY STARTED PICKING UP OVER TO THE EAST OF US, AND THESE ARE GOING TO LAST ALL THE WAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY.

IN FACT, OFFICIALS ARE SAYING PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN VENTURA COUNTY ALL THE WAY TO SAN DIEGO, THAT'S BASICALLY ALL OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, NEED TO BE PREPARED TO EVACUATE.

THAT'S MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY, MANY COMMUNITIES HERE, THAT ARE ALREADY EMOTIONALLY STRESSED.

WHETHER THEY HAVE BEEN EVACUATED OR THEY'VE HAD EVACUATION WARNINGS.

MANY BUSINESSES IN L.A. COUNTY HAVE SHUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE EMPLOYEES TO COME TO WORK, OR THEY JUST DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S SAFE.

THERE'S A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

SO THIS NEXT WIND EVENT, PEOPLE WILL BE VERY ON EDGE.

>> AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE DIRECTION OF THE WINDS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT'S BURNED DOWN AND ONE THAT IS SPARED.

WHAT ABOUT THE EFFORTS TO RESCUE PEOPLE, TO SEARCH FOR THE MISSING?

WE UNDERSTAND 20 TO 24 HAVE DIED.

AND YET THERE ARE HUNDREDS POTENTIALLY OR AT LEAST 100 STILL MISSING.

>> Reporter: YEAH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT INVESTIGATORS TOUCHED UPON TODAY.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY THEY AREN'T LETTING PEOPLE BACK INTO THESE EVACUATION ZONES BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL SEARCHING FOR THOSE MISSING.

THEY'RE FINDING REMAINS WHEN THEY GO INTO SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES.

AND THEY HAVE TO GO HOME BY HOME.

LISTEN TO WHAT AUTHORITIES HAD TO SAY -- >> WE ARE IN THE THIRD DAY OF GRID SEARCHING.

IT IS A VERY GRIM TASK, AND WE UNFORTUNATELY EVERY DAY WE'RE DOING THIS, WE'RE RUNNING ACROSS THE REMAINS OF INDIVIDUAL COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

THAT IS NOT EASY WORK.

VERY SAD TO REPORT.

AND I BELIEVE THAT WORK IS NOT ONLY GOING TO CONTINUE, BUT I BELIEVE WILL CONTINUE TO FIND REMAINS.

>> VERY STARK, ISN'T?

>> Reporter: INCREDIBLY STARK.

JUST HARD TO EVEN FATHOM.

AND AT ONE POINT THEY WERE ACTUALLY BRINGING PEOPLE IN, THEY WERE KIND OF ACCOMPANYING PEOPLE ONE BY ONE TO SEE IF THEY COULD COME TO GET THEIR MEDICATION OR SEARCH FOR SMALL PETS.

BUT THE LINE BECAME TOO LONG.

THEY HAVE NOW HALTED ALL OF THOSE EFFORTS, AND THEY'RE LOCKING EVERYTHING DOWN.

THEY HAVE A CURFEW IN PLACE, AND THEY ARE WARNING PEOPLE IF YOU COME INTO THESE AREAS, YOU WILL BE ARRESTED.

>> AND NOT JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING IN WHO MAY BE ENDANGERING THEMSELVES, BUT THOSE WHO ARE LOOTING AND SCAMMING AND BASICALLY EXHIBITING THE WORST SIDE OF HUMAN NATURE IN THIS SITUATION.

>> Reporter: RIGHT.

RIGHT.

YES.

THERE ARE CONCERNS OF PEOPLE LOOTING.

THEY HAVE ARRESTED DOZENS OF PEOPLE.

THEY'VE ALSO ARRESTED PEOPLE FOR BEING ARMED, SHOWING UP HERE WITH NARCOTICS.

AND REALLY JUST BEING IN THESE AREAS THAT THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.

JUST IN THIS AREA ALONE, A COUPLE OF DOZEN PEOPLE ARRESTED HERE FOR CURFEWS AND ALSO FOR THE LOOTING THAT YOU MENTIONED.

AND TODAY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF L.A. COUNTY SAID THAT THEY ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE THESE PEOPLE, AND THAT IF YOU COME IN, YOU WILL BE FACING CONSEQUENCES.

THEY WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IN HIS WORDS THAT THERE WILL BE TEETH TO THESE CONSEQUENCES.

SO WARNING MANY PEOPLE TO NOT COME INTO THESE EVACUATION ZONES.

AND ALSO, IT IS NOT SAFE.

THERE ARE STILL DOWNED POWER LINES AS WE SHOWED YOU.

THERE ARE CREWS WORKING.

THEY'RE LOOKING FOR GAS LINES, TO MAKE SURE ALL THOSE ARE SAFE.

THERE'S TOXIC ASH IN THE AIR.

I'M NOT WEARING MY MASK NOW BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE LIVE ON TV.

BUT IF YOU DON'T FOR A WHILE, YOUR THROAT STARTS TO HURT.

IT'S JUST NOT SAFE TO BE HERE.

>> WELL POP IT BACK ON NOW.

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING US THE LATEST.

VERONICA MIRACLE FROM ALTADENA.

THANK YOU.

>>> NOW IT IS THE LAST WEEK OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S PRESIDENCY.

TODAY HE'S AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT GIVING A FINAL FOREIGN POLICY SPEECH WITH A HEAVY FOCUS ON UKRAINE.

ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, DONALD TRUMP VOWED THAT HE COULD END THE CONFLICT IN 24 HOURS, EVEN BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE.

BUT IN THE FULL LIGHT OF DAYTIME REALITY, HE AND HIS DESIGNATED OFFICIALS ARE PUSHING THE DEADLINE DOWN THE ROAD.

AS THE OUTGOING ADMINISTRATION PUSHES OUT ITS LAST TRANCHE OF AID FOR KYIV BEFORE HANDING OVER.

ROBERT KAGAN ARGUES THAT UKRAINE IS A KEY TEST FOR TRUMP, AS WELL AS FOR AMERICA'S ADVERSARIES, AND HE'S JOINING THE PROGRAM LIVE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AGAIN, ROBERT KAGAN.

AND WE WANT TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND ANALYSIS ON WHAT LIES AHEAD IN UKRAINE.

BEFORE I GET TO HOW YOU'VE LAID IT OUT, IN THE "ATLANTIC" PIECE, WHAT DO YOU THINK TRUMP IS GOING DO DAY ONE?

>> WELL, CLEARLY THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE -- GET A NEGOTIATION STARTED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

BUT I THINK THEY MAY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S VERY LITTLE PROSPECT OF GETTING ANY KIND OF SERIOUS TALKS.

PUTIN WILL, OF COURSE, TALK FOREVER IF HE NEEDS TO.

BUT TO REALLY GET DOWN TO HEADING TOWARD A SETTLEMENT, UNDER THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES PUTIN HAS NO INCENTIVE TO NEGOTIATE.

HE THINKS HE'S WINNING THE WAR, AND UNLESS SOMETHING CHANGES RATHER DRAMATICALLY, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE GETTING A NEW AID BILL FOR UKRAINE, I THINK IT SHOULD DAWN ON THE TRUMP PEOPLE AND TRUMP HIMSELF THAT PUTIN IS NOT AMENABLE TO ANY KIND OF DEAL THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY LIVE WITH.

>> OKAY, LET'S PICK THAT APART BECAUSE AS I JUST SAID, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO SEND ITS LAST TRANCHE.

YOU'RE SAYING ANOTHER MAJOR COMMITMENT BY THE INCOMING ADMINISTRATION IS VITAL NOT JUST FOR UKRAINE'S SURVIVAL BUT TO SEND AN UNMISTAKABLE MESSAGE TO PUTIN.

>> LOOK, PUTIN OBVIOUSLY -- RUSSIA IS SUFFERING IN THIS WAR.

THE CASUALTIES ARE IMMENSE.

I THINK THEY'RE HEADING UP IN THE DIRECTION OF 500,000 CASUALTIES, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A TREMENDOUS COST.

THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY IS SUFFERING FROM THE SANCTIONS THAT THE WORLD HAS PUT ON IT.

BUT PUTIN BELIEVES THAT HIS TIMELINE IS BETTER THAN THE UKRAINIAN TIMELINE, AND I THINK HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT.

THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO RUN OUT OF AMERICAN ASSISTANCE IF NOTHING ELSE IS DONE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

AND IT TAKES TIME TO GET THEM AID.

SO BY THE END OF THE YEAR, THEY MAY BE COLLAPSING WHETHER FROM ACTUAL INCAPACITY TO FIGHT OR FROM A COLLAPSE OF MORALE IF THEY'RE NOT GETTING ANY SUPPORT FROM THE UNITED STATES.

SO PUTIN THINKS HE CAN HOLD ON LONG ENOUGH TO WIN THIS CONFLICT.

AND BY WIN I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND CLEARLY THAT WIN DOES NOT MEAN A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT WHERE UKRAINE KEEPS PART OF ITS SOVEREIGNTY, ET CETERA.

A WIN FOR PUTIN IS A TOTAL ELIMINATION OF UKRAINE AS AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY ON THE WORLD STAGE.

>> BUT I WONDER WHETHER ANYBODY GETS THAT OR IS WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT IN THE SORT OF NATO ALLIANCE AND ALL THOSE WHO SPENT THE LAST THREE YEARS TRYING TO SEND THAT VERY MESSAGE TO PUTIN.

YOU KNOW, PUTIN HAS THOUGHT THAT HE COULD WAIT OUT THE WEST EVER SINCE THIS STARTED.

LET'S SAY AT LEAST SIX MONTHS INTO THE WAR.

IN YOUR PIECE YOU HAVE SAID TRUMP IS FACING A CATASTROPHIC DEFEAT IN UKRAINE.

THAT'S BASICALLY THE TITLE OF YOUR PIECE.

WHY TRUMP?

>> WELL, IT'S JUST -- TRUMP IS GOING TO BE THE PRESIDENT -- IF THIS SCENARIO UNFOLDS, TRUMP WILL BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHEN KYIV FALLS AND WHEN RUSSIA ACHIEVES ITS COMPLETE VICTORY IN UKRAINE.

THAT, OF COURSE, IS GOING TO HAVE HUGE STRATEGIC RAMIFICATIONS FOR EUROPE, FOR EUROPEAN SECURITY, AND I WOULD SAY FOR AMERICA'S CONTINUING ROLE AS A MAJOR PLAYER IN WORLD AFFAIRS.

AND THE QUESTION FOR DONALD TRUMP IS, IS THAT WHAT HE WANTS TO PRESIDE OVER.

BECAUSE I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HISTORY SUGGESTS THAT PRESIDING OVER THAT KIND OF STRATEGIC DEFEAT BY AN ACKNOWLEDGED ADVERSARY LIKE RUSSIA IS USUALLY NOT GOOD FOR THE PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS TO BE THERE.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT -- OBVIOUSLY TRUMP'S FAULT IN MANY RESPECTS.

THIS IS THE SITUATION THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS LEFT HIM WITH.

BUT NEVERTHELESS, THE REALITY IS THAT IF NOTHING IS DONE, KYIV WILL FALL ON DONALD TRUMP'S WATCH.

>> OKAY, I WANT TO STOP YOU THERE ABOUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT IN ALL HIS FOREIGN POLICY SPEECHES ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT EVERYTHING THEY'VE DONE TO PRECISELY STAVE OFF RUSSIA AND TO SAVE UKRAINE AS A SOVEREIGN, INDEPENDENT STATE.

OF COURSE YOUR WIFE, VICTORIA NOONAN, WAS IN THE ADMINISTRATION, HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.

WHAT HAS GONE WRONG?

>> WELL, WHAT HAS GONE WRONG, AND I THINK MANY PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS, IS THAT INSTEAD OF REALIZING THAT WE COULD NOT AFFORD TO ALLOW UKRAINE TO LOSE THIS CONFLICT AND, THEREFORE, TO POUR IN EVERYTHING THAT WE POSSIBLY COULD AS QUICKLY AS WE POSSIBLY COULD, TECHNOLOGICALLY AND IN TERMS OF QUANTITY, ALL THE DIFFERENT WEAPONS, INSTEAD THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DELAYED TAKING ACTION, DELAYED PROVIDING CERTAIN KINDS OF AID.

THEY WERE WORRIED I THINK QUITE UNNECESSARILY ABOUT WHAT PUTIN MIGHT DO.

I DON'T THINK PUTIN HAD ANY REAL OPTIONS IN RESPONSE TO THAT THAT COULD HURT THE UNITED STATES.

AND SO THEY BASICALLY PLAYED A RATHER CAUTIOUS GAME TRYING TO STEER THIS PATH.

AND THE RESULT IS THAT WE ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT HAS NOT BEEN ENOUGH.

AND I THINK HISTORIANS MAY LOOK BACK ON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND SAY THEY WERE THE ONES PRIMARILY IF IN FACT UKRAINE FALLS, THEY WERE THE ONES WHO WERE PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN.

NOW TRUMP HIMSELF HAS PLAYED A ROLE IN THAT BY OPPOSING THE AID AND DELAYING THE PROVISION OF AID IN 2024.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THAT WILL HAVE PRESIDED OVER WHAT RIGHT NOW IS SOMETHING THAT IS ON A TRAJECTORY TOWARD DEFEAT.

>> OKAY.

AND THEN TO ANSWER PEOPLE WHO SAY BUT HANG ON, HE SENT ALL THIS STUFF, AND THEY SAY THEY COULDN'T SEND MORE BECAUSE THE UKRAINIANS WEREN'T, YOU KNOW, READY TO TAKE THEM, WEREN'T TRAINED UP, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, IT HAD TO BE SLOW.

WE SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN TRIED TO CLOSE THE AIRS -- SKIES.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

NOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THE SKIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED OVER UKRAINE FROM ALMOST THE BEGINNING, AND THAT ACTUALLY UKRAINIANS HAVE MANAGED TO USE THE WEAPONRY THEY'VE GOT?

>> THEY'VE USED IT, BUT THEY'RE CLEARLY ON A LOSING TRAJECTORY NOW.

IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO MOVE FASTER THAN THEY ACTUALLY DID.

AND THEIR MAJOR REASON, BY THE WAY, FOR NOT DOING THAT, YEAH THEY HAD -- REASONS ABOUT WHETHER THE UKRAINIANS WERE READY FOR THIS OR THAT, ALTHOUGH IT TAKES TIME TO GET READY.

SO GET STARTED QUICKLY.

THE MAJOR REASON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T DO THAT IS BECAUSE PUTIN SUCCESSFULLY BLUFFED THEM THAT EVERY TIME THEY WANTED TO THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING FOR UKRAINE PUTIN RATTLED NUCLEAR SABRES AND SAID HE MIGHT DO SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS LIKE USE A NUCLEAR WEAPON, AND THEY WERE FRIGHTENED BY THAT.

I THINK THEY'RE FRANK ABOUT IT.

CERTAINLY IF YOU TALK TO THEM PRIVATELY.

SO I OKAY, AND THAT WAS A MAJOR STRATEGIC FAILURE ON THEIR PART.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE WORRIED ABOUT IT?

WHY DO YOU THINK PUTIN WOULDN'T HAVE FOLLOWED THROUGH?

>> BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A USEFUL NUCLEAR OPTION.

HE'S NOT GOING TO START -- HE'S NOT GOING TO BLOW UP THE ENTIRE WORLD BECAUSE HE'S LOSING IN UKRAINE, WHICH WOULD BE ONE OPTION WHICH IS TO START A GLOBAL NUCLEAR WAR.

THEY WERE AFRAID THAT HE WOULD USE A NUCLEAR WEAPON IN UKRAINE.

IF HE USED A NUCLEAR WEAPON IN UKRAINE, FIRST OF ALL IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY PUT AN END TO THE CONFLICT.

SECOND OF ALL, THE BREEZES BLOW EAST AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND ON THE PLANET.

AND THAT A LOT OF THE RADIATION FROM A NUCLEAR BLAST WOULD WIND UP HITTING RUSSIA AND RUSSIAN TROOPS AND RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

IT WAS CLEARLY A BLUFF.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE -- CIA DIRECTOR BILL BURNS IN AN ARTICLE EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE WAS VERY LITTLE PROSPECT OF THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

I THINK THAT THAT WAS JUST A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, BY THE WAY, IF WE ARE GOING TO REFUSE TO AID ANYONE WHO'S BEING ATTACKED BY ANOTHER NUCLEAR POWER, THAT IS GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM FOR US MOVING FORWARD.

SO WE HAVE A NUCLEAR FORCE FOR A REASON.

IT'S TO DETER THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

BUT IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO -- WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE CAN'T PROVIDE AID TO SOMEONE WHO IS FIGHTING AN INVASION BECAUSE PUTIN IS, IN MY VIEW, BLUFFING ABOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

>> AND AS OTHERS HAVE SAID, FALLING FOR THIS BLUFF COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, SORT OF NEGATES THE WHOLE IDEA OF A NUCLEAR DETERRENCE.

BUT YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE WHO WE'VE SPOKEN TO AND YOU'VE SPOKEN TO SAY THE ONLY THING PUTIN UNDERSTANDS IS BASICALLY STRENGTH, ARM, AND A SOCK IN THE NOSE AFTER HE IS SOCKED, METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING, UKRAINE IN THE NOSE.

YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THE CHOICE FOR DONALD TRUMP IS QUITE STARK.

THE CHOICE HE MAKES IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS WILL DETERMINE NOT ONLY THE FATE OF UKRAINE BUT ALSO THE SUCCESS OF HIS OWN PRESIDENCY.

NOW, WE HAVE TALKED A LITTLE BIT IN THE LAST FEW MINUTES ABOUT THAT AND WHY YOU SAY THAT.

BUT YOU SAID IT'S NOT REALLY HIS FAULT, THE STATE OF WHERE WE ARE.

HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK, THOUGH, CAN BE LAID AT HIS FEET BY HIM AND HIS ACOLYTES AND THE DESIGNATED NEW FOREIGN SECURITY AND DEFENSE OFFICIALS WHO ALL WITH ONE VOICE SAY, OH, WE SHOULDN'T BE SENDING ANY MORE AID TO UKRAINE, OH, IT'S NOT OUR FIGHT, OH THIS AND OH THAT?

>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, I SAID IT WASN'T ENTIRELY HIS FAULT.

BUT IT CERTAINLY WAS HIS FAULT INSOFAR AS HE TOOK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH -- BY THE WAY, AFTER THE INVASION OF UKRAINE IN FEBRUARY, A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS FAVORED HELPING THE UKRAINIANS.

IT TOOK SOME DOING FOR DONALD TRUMP AND OTHERS AS YOU SAY IN HIS CIRCLE TO SORT OF TURN MANY REPUBLICAN VOTERS AROUND AND TURN THEM AGAINST THIS AID.

AND THE RESULT OF THAT WAS A VERY DANGEROUS AND SEVERE AND COSTLY DELAY IN THE PROVISION OF AID IN 2024.

ALL I WANT TO SAY IS AT THE END OF THE DAY IT WAS STILL THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN CHARGE, BUT TRUMP CERTAINLY DESERVES A SHARE OF THE BLAME FOR THE SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW.

>> AS I SAID, NOW IN THE FULL LIGHT OF DAY, SOME OF HIS DESIGNATED OFFICIALS ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY TRUMP INTENDS TO DO.

HERE IS KEITH KELLOGG, HIS INCOMING UKRAINE ENVOY.

>> HE'S ACTUALLY TRYING TO SAVE UKRAINE AND SAVE THEIR SOVEREIGNTY.

AND HE'S GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S EQUITABLE AND FAIR.

HE SAID THAT REPEATEDLY.

AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO COME TO A -- A SOLVABLE SOLUTION IN THE NEAR TERM.

WHEN I SAY BY THE NEAR TERM, I WOULD LIKE TO SET A GOAL ON A PERSONAL LEVEL AND PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, SET IT AT 100 DAYS AND MOVE OUR WAY BACK.

>> ANOTHER TIMELINE OF 100 DAYS.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, LAY OUT THE STAKES FOR SAVING UKRAINE.

FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT THINK THAT IT MATTERS A DAMN.

>> WELL, TO ANSWER THE SECOND QUESTION FIRST, I MEAN, IF RUSSIA IS IN CONTROL OF UKRAINE, RUSSIAN FORCES WILL THEN BORDER DIRECTLY ON A NUMBER OF NATO COUNTRIES.

UKRAINE IS NOT THE END OF RUSSIAN AMBITIONS, IT'S NOT THE END OF PUTIN AMBITIONS.

IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THOSE AMBITIONS.

PUTIN DOESN'T REGARD UKRAINE AS A REAL COUNTRY.

I DON'T THINK HE REGARDS THE BALTIC STATES AS REAL COUNTRIES.

THEY USED TO BE PART OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE, NOT JUST THE SOVIET EMPIRE.

I THINK HE BELIEVES THAT RUSSIA SHOULD HAVE A SPHERE OF INFLUENCE THAT EXTENDS INTO CENTRAL EUROPE, THAT INCLUDES POLAND AND OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO AS MANY PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT, WE ARE THEN GOING TO BE IN THE POSITION OF HAVING TO DEFEND THOSE COUNTRIES AGAINST A MUCH MORE SERIOUS RUSSIAN THREAT THAN WE CURRENTLY FACE, AND THE COST OF THAT DEFENSE IS GOING TO BE MUCH GREATER THAN THE COST RIGHT NOW OF HELPING UKRAINIANS KEEP THE RUSSIANS AT BAY.

AND SO FROM A PURE COST PERSPECTIVE, IT'S FOOLISH.

BUT ALSO IT WILL BE A VERY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS WORLD.

WE WILL HAVE A RUSSIAN, AGGRESSIVE RUSSIAN STATE THAT HAS ALREADY CONQUERED ONE COUNTRY AND IS LOOKING TO SEE WHAT IT CAN CONQUER NEXT.

I THINK WE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE IN THE 20th CENTURY, AND I THINK IT'S WORTH TRYING TO PREVENT IT FROM REPEATING ITSELF IN THE 21st CENTURY.

>> INDEED.

AND YOU KNOW, IN THAT PERIOD, AMERICA LAID THE RULES OF THE POST- POST- POST-WORLD WAR II WORLD AND IT'S BEEN A LED WORLD IN ALL SPHERES.

DO YOU AGREE THAT THIS UKRAINE DILEMMA POSES A REAL THREAT DEPENDING ON HOW IT TURNS OUT TO AN AMERICAN-LED LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC ORDER?

CERTAINLY CHINA AND RUSSIA WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP DIMINISHED AND THEIRS, YOU KNOW, EXTENDED.

>> LOOK, ALL I CAN SAY IS LOOK AT HOW THE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD ARE BEHAVING.

THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE OPPOSED TO THE UNITED STATES AND THE SECURITY ORDER THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS UPHELD FOR DECADES, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, CHINA, AS WELL AS RUSSIA ARE ALL IN THIS.

NORTH KOREA HAS SENT ITS TROOPS, 12,000 TROOPS AT LEAST HAVE GONE TO UKRAINE.

CHINA IS FINANCING THIS WAR AND PROVIDING SURREPTITIOUSLY CHINA TO WAGE THIS WAR.

IRAN HAS TURNED SOME INDUSTRIES OVER TO WAR PRODUCTION FOR UKRAINE.

WHY ARE THEY DOING THAT?

THEY DO SEE UKRAINE AS A CENTRAL AND PERHAPS DECISIVE BATTLEFIELD FOR THE CONTINUATION OF THE VERY PEACEFUL AND PROSPEROUS WORLD THAT WE HAVE KNOWN FOR MANY DECADES.

THEY SEE THIS AS A DEADLY BLOW TO THE UNITED STATES.

BY THE WAY, SO DO ALL AMERICAN ALLIES.

THAT'S WHY ASIAN COUNTRIES WHO ARE FAR FROM THIS CONFLICT, JAPAN AND KOREA AND AUSTRALIA, ARE ALSO HELPING UKRAINE BECAUSE THEY ALSO SEE WHAT A CRITICAL CONFLICT THIS IS FOR THE GENERAL STATE OF WORLD ORDER ON WHICH THEY DEPEND FOR THEIR SECURITY.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T PRETEND HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT THIS DOESN'T MEAN WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD SEES IT AS MEANING.

>> AND FINALLY, TO SWERVE A LITTLE BIT INTO ANOTHER LANE BUT ONE THAT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT TRUTH AND ACTUALLY TELLING THE STORIES IN AN ACCURATE WAY, YOU LEFT "THE WASHINGTON POST" AS A COLUMNIST.

PARTLY -- I SUPPOSE -- I THINK BECAUSE THEY DECLINED TO DO THEIR TRADITIONAL SUPPORT FOR ANY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN THEIR EDITORIAL.

AND NOW WE'RE SEEING -- SHOULD I USE THE WORD STAMPEDE?

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT VERY, VERY TOP-NOTCH REPORTERS, EXECUTIVES, COLUMNISTS ARE LEAVING THAT PAPER.

IT'S A GREAT PAPER.

WHAT IS THIS GOING TO HAVE IN TERMS OF IMPACT, ESPECIALLY ON A PRESS UNFRIENDLY TRUMP ADMINISTRATION COMING TO WASHINGTON?

>> WELL, I THINK WE'RE SEEING IT ALL OVER THE PLACE.

WE'RE SEEING IT AT THE "LOS ANGELES TIMES," WE'RE GOING TO -- I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE IT IN OTHER MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WHEN VERY RICH PEOPLE AND -- OR BUSINESS CONGLOMERATES ARE THE OWNERS OF THE MEDIA BECAUSE THEY ARE VULNERABLE TO PRESSURE FROM DONALD TRUMP.

AND I THINK IT WAS -- I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DOUBTED FOR A SECOND THAT WHEN JEFF BEZOS DECIDED NOT TO ENDORSE HERE AND THERE WAS AN ENDORSEMENT OF KAMALA HARRIS PREPARED, THAT HE WAS BENDING THE KNEE TO TRUMP IN THE HOPES OF CURRYING FAVOR SO THAT HIS BUSINESS INTERESTS, WHICH GO WAY, WAY BEYOND "THE WASHINGTON POST," WOULD NOT BE DAMAGED BY A TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

AND WE'RE SEEING THIS ACROSS THE BOARD.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR A FREE PRESS?

IT MEANS THAT THE ALARM BELLS SHOULD BE GOING OFF.

I THINK OUR FREE PRESS IS ENDANGERED PARTLY BY WHAT WE'VE SEEN, WHICH IS SORT OF VOLUNTARY SUBMISSION TO DONALD TRUMP.

>> ROBERT KAGAN, WE REMAIN ON GUARD, ON WATCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PARTICULARLY YOUR IMPORTANT ANALYSIS AND WATCHING THE UKRAINE SITUATION.

THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> NEXT, TO A BOLD NEW FILM THAT HAS SHOCKED AND DELIGHTED AUDIENCES IN EQUAL MEASURE.

IT'S CALLED "BABY GIRL," AND IT TELLS THE STORY OF A HIGH-POWERED FEMALE TECH EXECUTIVE PLAYED BY NICOLE KIDMAN WHO EMBARKS ON AN OFFICE AFFAIR WITH A MUCH YOUNGER INTERN.

NOW BEYOND THE AGE DIFFERENCE AND THE POWER DYNAMIC, IT'S PROMPTING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT FEMALE SEXUALITY WITH "THE NEW YORK TIMES" NOTING THAT, QUOTE, WOMEN REALLY WANT TO TALK AFTER SEEING "BABY GIRL."

IT'S WRITTEN AND DIRECTED BY HELENA RAIN WHO JOINS THE PROGRAM LIVE NOW FROM NEW YORK.

HELENA RAIN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

OKAY, IS THIS THE KIND OF CONVERSATION THAT YOU INTENDED YOUR FILM TO SPARK?

WHAT DID YOU INTEND?

>> NO, I REALLY MADE IT AS A CONVERSATION STARTER.

I WAS WELL AWARE OF WHAT I WAS DOING, BUT I WANTED TO TELL A STORY ABOUT THINGS THAT I WAS STRUGGLING WITH AS A WOMAN, AS A FEMINIST.

THINGS THAT I WAS ASHAMED OF.

THINGS THAT I DIDN'T DARE TO TALK ABOUT EVEN WITH MY GIRLFRIENDS.

I KIND OF MADE THIS MOVIE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU AS A MEANS TO CONNECT TO OTHER WOMEN AND AS A TOOL TO EVEN TALK ABOUT ALL OF THESE SUBJECTS.

>> OKAY.

AS WE SAID AND YOU CAN LAY IT OUT BETTER THAN I CAN, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A POWERFUL MARRIED MOTHER CEO, A WOMAN PLAYED BY NICOLE KIDMAN, WHO HAS BEEN ESSENTIALLY STALKED INTO BEING THE MENTOR OF A MUCH YOUNGER INTERN WHO SEEMS IN MY OPINION TO BE IN CHARGE OF THIS POWER DYNAMIC NO MATTER HIS YOUTH AND HIS, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL MUCH LOWER STATUS.

HOW DID YOU -- HOW DID YOU WORK THAT OUT, AND WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

>> FOR ME, THIS IS A COMITY OF -- WE PLAY WITH TROPES, SEXUAL THRILLER TROPES FROM THE '90s WRITTEN AND DIRECTED BY MEN.

I FOUND THE CHARACTERS WERE PUNISHED AT THE END IF THEY WOULD CHEAT OR WOULD EXPLORE THEIR DARKER, INNER BEAST.

I WANTED TO CREATE A MOVIE THAT WAS MORE HUMAN.

IN THE BEGINNING WE PLAY WITH THRILLER TROPES, BUT IN THE END YOU JUST SEE TWO PEOPLE AND EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN AN AFFAIR, SO THEY'RE MORALLY NOT DOING SOMETHING RIGHT, THEY ARE BOTH IN CRISIS.

THEY ARE BOTH IN AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS.

NICOLE KIDMAN IS IN A CRISIS IN THE SENSE THAT SHE'S IN A MIDLIFE.

SHE SEES THE END NEARING, AND SHE THINKS SHE HAS TO BE PERFECT.

SHE HAS TO PLAY ALL THESE DIFFERENT ROLES IN LIFE, THE PERFECT LEADER, THE PERFECT WIFE, THE PERFECT LOVER, HAS A PERFECT BODY, THE PERFECT FACE.

SHE MEETS THIS YOUNG MAN THAT IS ALSO TAKING HIS FIRST STEPS IN LIFE.

HE'S IN A QUARTER LIFE CRISIS IF YOU WILL.

THEY KIND OF CONNECT IN THEIR INNER WOUNDS.

THAT'S WHEN THEY EMBARK UPON THIS JOURNEY OF AN EXPLORATION OF MASCULINITY, CONSENT, FEMININITY, SEXUALITY, POWER, SHAME.

>> I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP, AND IT IS OBVIOUSLY WITH ROMY AND SAMUEL, THE CHARACTERS YOU'VE LAID OUT.

THIS IS ONE OF THEIR FIRST MEETINGS.

>> FIVE YEARS I STARTED MY OWN COMPANY.

I WANTED TO AUTOMATE REPETITIVE TASKS AND GIVE PEOPLE THEIR TIME BACK BY LIMITING -- >> POWER-HUNGRY PERSONALITIES.

>> YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT I AM?

>> NO.

NO.

I THINK THE OPPOSITE.

>> YOU THINK I DON'T LIKE POWER?

>> I THINK YOU LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO.

SORRY.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO -- I'M SORRY.

THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE.

>> I MEAN, REALLY INAPPROPRIATE.

OKAY, FOR ME, I'M LIKE, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

A YOUNG INTERN IS GOING TO SAY THAT TO THE FEMALE CEO IN THE WORK SPACE?

BUT I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE WORKING OUT, THEIR TRAUMAS.

WHAT IS SAMUEL'S TRAUMA FIRST?

AND THEN WE'LL GO TO ROMY'S.

>> I THINK SAMUEL'S TRAUMA IS ALSO LIKE WE KEEP IT A LITTLE BIT HIDDEN.

I DON'T LIKE TO LIKE GO INTO THE BACK STORIES TOO DEEP BECAUSE I THINK IT'S AMAZING FOR AN AUDIENCE TO USE THEIR OWN IMAGINATION AND RELATE TO CERTAIN PARTS OF THESE CHARACTERS.

HE'S VERY MUCH A GEN-Z KID.

MY MOVIE IS ALSO VERY MUCH ABOUT GENERATIONS.

AGAIN, IT IS A FABEL, A COMITY OF MANNERS.

BUT HE REPRESENTS THE GENERATION THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE IDEA OF HIERARCHY THAT I AS A GEN-X WOMAN HAD.

IT'S HOW WE FEEL WE LOOK UP TO A CEO AND HE TREATS HER DIFFERENTLY.

THAT IS WHAT ATTRACTS HER TO HIM.

THEY BOTH ARE DEALING, I THINK, WITH SIMILAR THINGS.

SHE COMES FROM -- SHE SAYS I WAS NAMED BY A GURU, COMES FROM A SEXUAL REVOLUTION, COMES FROM CHAOS.

HER WHOLE LIFE IS AN ANSWER TO THAT.

SHE LOVES STRUCTURE.

SHE LOVES ORGANIZATION, AND SHE SUPPRESSES HER INNER BEAST.

AND THROUGH SAMUEL SHE'S ABLE TO LET IT OUT.

MY FILM IS A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVERYONE OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SUPPRESS THESE DARK SIDES OF YOURSELF.

IF YOU LET THEM COME OUT, IF YOU DARE TO TALK ABOUT IT, IF YOU DARE TO TALK TO YOUR PARTNER, THE WHOLE MOVIE WOULDN'T HAVE TO TAKE PLACE IF SHE WOULD HAVE SET ANTONIO BAN DERAS DOWN, SHE CAN'T, SHE'S NOT ABLE.

SHE'S FULL OF SHAME.

SHE HAS THIS PERFECT IMAGE OF WHAT A WOMAN SHOULD LOOK LIKE, BE, AND ACT LIKE.

AND THAT IS WHAT MY MOVIE IS TRYING TO SAY.

>> YOU KNOW, AND I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, WATCHING IT I THOUGHT BANDERAS PLAYED A VERY SYMPATHETIC HUSBAND FIGURE.

>> YES.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE A SPOILER, BUT ALL THROUGHOUT.

I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HER TRAUMA.

I'M REALLY INTERESTED THAT YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GO TOO DEEP INTO THE BACK STORIES.

I WANT TO KNOW AS A VIEWER WHAT ARE THE BACK STORIES?

AND WHAT IS HER BACK STORY?

BECAUSE SHE JUST ALLUDES TO THIS TRAUMA SHE SUFFERED AS A CHILD.

SHE ALLUDES, AS YOU SAID, TO BEING BROUGHT UP AND NAMED IN A COMMUNE/CULT.

YOU HAVE SAID IN A WAY THAT YOU WERE BROUGHT UP BY RADICAL HIPPIES.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY OF YOUR EXPERIENCE IS TRANSLATED ONTO THIS SCRIPT.

BUT TELL ME ABOUT THAT, AND HOW THAT FITS INTO THE STORY.

>> YEAH.

WE SEE -- MY FILM IS VERY MUCH ABOUT PERFORMANCE.

WE SEE ROMY, NICOLE KIDMAN, THROUGH THERAPY.

SHE TAKES ICE BATHS AND LIES IN OXYGEN CHAMBERS AND DOING THINGS.

ALSO SHE'S DOING EMDR THERAPY.

THIS FORM OF THERAPY MAKES YOU GO BACK TO YOUR CHILDHOOD MEMORIES.

HERE YOU GET YOUR BACK STORY A LITTLE BIT.

AT LEAST YOU GET SOME IDEA OF IT.

THERE YOU SEE FLASHBACKS TO THE COMMUNE.

YES, I GREW UP -- MY PARENTS WERE RADICAL HIPPIES.

AND WE WERE PART OF A SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT CALLED SUE BOOTS.

I WAS NAMED BY A GURU.

YES, I USED THAT, THIS WHOLE FILM IS PERSONAL TO ME.

I'M NOT A CEO OF A ROBOTICS COMPANY, I AM NOT A MOTHER, I DON'T HAVE A PARTNER.

SO IT'S ALSO VERY DIFFERENT.

I'M TRYING ON TO MAKE A UNIVERSAL STORY THAT HOPEFULLY SPEAKS TO EVERYONE.

SO I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE AN AMAZING THEME TO GIVE FOR THAT KIND OF BACK STORY, TO CREATE A STORY ABOUT ORDER VERSUS CHAOS.

AND I THINK, AGAIN, I THINK A LOT OF WOMEN AND I WILL SPEAK FOR MYSELF, I STRUGGLE WITH THE FACT THAT I THINK I SHOULD BE THIS CREATURE THAT HAS ELEMENT NO BLEMISHES, IN MY BODY THAT LOOKS A CERTAIN WAY, BUT ON MY SOUL.

ON MY SORT OF LIKE EXISTENTIAL DNA.

SHE'S TRYING TO GET RID OF ALL OF THAT THROUGH THERAPY, THROUGH BOTOX, THROUGH ICE BATHS, THROUGH THE WHOLE SHEBANG.

SHE'S TRYING TO BECOME THIS PERFECT ALMOST ROBOTIC CREATURE.

THROUGHOUT MY WHOLE FILM THERE'S CONSTANTLY THE THEME OF THE ANIMALISTIC, THE PRIMAL AGAINST THE CIVILIZATION, THE ORGANIZED, THE STRUCTURE, CHAOS VERSUS ORDER.

>> I'M GOING TO PLAY ANOTHER CLIP.

IT'S WHERE THEY'RE DANCING.

AND I'M GOING TO -- WE'RE GOING TO CHAT OUTSIDE.

♪ ♪ THAT'S ALL YOU WANTED SOMETHING SPECIAL ♪ >> OKAY.

SEXY.

HE -- BUT HE THEN REALLY GETS ON MY NERVES WHEN HE SAYS TO HER AT SOME POINT IN A CAR WHEN SHE'S HAVING AN EMOTIONAL CRISIS, BECAUSE HE'S ENDED UP, YOU KNOW, BOLDLY AS WHAT YOU SAID, WHAT IS IT, A GEN-Z, YOU KNOW, TAKING -- BEHAVIOR.

AT HER FAMILY HOUSE.

HE SAYS TO HER, "YOU LOOK LIKE A MOTHER, I'M NOT INTO THAT."

I MEAN, HOW MUCH MORE HUMILIATING CAN YOU GET?

>> EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING, THE WHOLE MOVIE AND THAT WAY ALMOST PLAYS AS A SEXUAL FANTASY.

IT STARTS WITH A PERFORMATIVE ORGASM AND ENDS WITH A REAL ORGASM.

FIGURATIVELY AND -- YOU CAN SEE IT AS A SEXUAL FANTASY.

EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING EVEN IF THE STAKES ARE VERY HIGH IS A POWER PLAY.

EVERYTHING THEY'RE DOING IS PART OF THE SEXUAL DYNAMIC.

AND THEY'RE CHALLENGING EACH OTHER.

OF COURSE, THIS IS NOT A DOCUMENTARY, RIGHT?

THIS IS A DARK FAIRYTALE AND HOPEFULLY A FUNNY FAIRYTALE WITH HUMOR.

THAT IS WHAT HE'S DOING THERE.

HE'S LIKE, HUMILIATING HER, BUT THAT IS PART OF THE GAME.

THEY'RE CONSTANTLY CHALLENGING EACH OTHER, AND THE RICK HAS TO BE REAL.

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS TO HER HUSBAND, THAT'S WHAT SHE'S EMBARRASSED ABOUT, THAT'S THE ADDICTION.

>> AND HELENA, TALK ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

FRANKLY, THERE'S A LOT REPORTING OF STORYTELLING IN DOCUMENTARY AND REAL LIFE, AS WELL AS IN THE WORLD OF CULTURE ABOUT OLDER WOMEN CLAIMING THEIR PERSONHOOD.

CLAIMING THEIR SEXUALITY.

EVEN POST-MENOPAUSAL WOMEN.

LOOK AT MIRANDA JULY'S BOOK "ON ALL FOURS."

FRANKLY PARTS THAT NICOLE KIDMAN HAS PLAYED THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR VIEW IN SOCIETY AROUND WOMEN OF A CERTAIN AGE?

>> LOOK, I THINK WE ARE STILL EXPLORING EACH OTHER AND OURSELVES.

WE HAVE SUCH A LONG ROAD TO GO.

WE JUST BASICALLY GOT THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

IN 1987 WE STILL HAD TO TAKE A MALE GUARDIAN TO A BANK TO GET A BUSINESS LOAN.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR FEMINISM?

WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO WE ARE YET.

I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT FINALLY WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE MORE SPACE.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCIENTIFIC FACTS ABOUT THE ORGASM GAP, IT IS VERY, VERY SAD.

IT TAKES A WOMAN, YOU KNOW, ON AVERAGE, 18 MINUTES TO [ BLEEP ] AT THE HAND OF A MAN.

THAT'S A LONG TIME.

A LOT OF WOMEN STRUGGLE WITH THAT.

SOME WOMEN DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO HAVE AN ORGASM WITH A MAN.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THESE SUBJECTS.

AND LOOKING AROUND ME NOW, SEEING MIRANDA JULY TELLING STORIES ABOUT THIS, OLDER WOMEN EMBRACING MENOPAUSE, TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE TABOO SUBJECTS, IT IS IN A WAY INCREDIBLE THAT THEY ARE STILL TABOO.

BUT ALSO LOOK AT DEMI MOORE, PAMELA ANDERSON, ALL THESE ACTRESSES THAT ARE IN A MOMENT NOW, HAVING A MOMENT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IT'S AMAZING.

AND I HOPE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I STILL THINK WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

WE'RE NOT THERE YET UNFORTUNATELY.

>> YOU WERE AN ACTRESS YOURSELF.

WE'VE ONLY GOT 30 SECONDS.

HOW DID THAT INFORM THIS SCRIPT AND THE DIRECTING?

>> I THINK I HAVE BEEN A STAGE ACTRESS ALL MY LIFE.

I WAS ESTATED BY SHAKESPEARE AND GENIUS MEN AND THEY TEACH ME HOW TO WRITE AND HOW TO CONSTRUCT MY SCRIPT BUT THEY TEACH ME HOW TO MAKE OTHER ACTORS FEEL SAFE.

THAT'S MY PRIORITY TO KEEP THEM SAFE PHYSICALLY WITH INTIMACY SCENES BUT MENTALLY WHEN THEY HAVE HARD EMOTIONAL SCENES.

THAT IS WHAT INFORMS ME WHEN I DIRECT.

AND I DIRECT IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY.

I DON'T SIT IN A HIGH CHAIR WITH THE NORTHFACE JACKET EATING PIZZA TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO.

I LOVE TO COLLABORATE.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING.

>> HELENA RAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>> SUCH WAS HONOR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO TALK TO YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> NEXT, A VERY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF ART, THE ACCLAIMED DOCUMENTARY "PORCELAIN WAR" HAS REACHED THE OSCAR SHORT LIST.

IT'S ABOUT THE KHARKIV BASED ARTISTS WHO SPECIALIZE IN MAKING DELICATE PORCELAIN FIGURINES, EVEN AMIDST THE RAGING WAR THAT RUSSIA HAS INFLICTED ON THEIR HOMELAND.

THEY KEPT THIS DESPITE ROLLING BLACKOUTS AND TRAINING RECRUITS FOR THE UKRAINIAN FRONT.

IN THIS CONVERSATION WITH HARI SREENIVASAN, THE CO-DIRECTOR OF THE DOCUMENTARY, AND THE FILMMAKER DISCUSS WHY THEY THINK ART IS VITAL TO UKRAINIAN RESISTANCE.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR FILM "PORCELAIN WAR" GIVES US A DIFFERENT KIND OF LOOK IN LIFE IN UKRAINE TODAY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOW A THREE-YEAR-LONG WAR.

>> LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU'RE AN ARTIST, AND YOU'VE BEEN WORKING AS PART OF THE UKRAINIAN EFFORT.

WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE UKRAINIAN ARMY?

WHAT TYPE OF WORK WERE YOU DOING THAT KIND OF JUXTAPOSE THAT TO ME LIKE WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR ART.

>> I WAS IN UKRAINIAN SPECIAL FORCE.

I DROVE A CAR, I WAS -- ALSO I TRAINED CIVILIANS HOW TO USE WEAPONS, HOW TO DEFEND THEIR HOMES.

IT WAS TIME WHEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF OUR PEOPLE CAME TO ARMY AS VOLUNTEERS TO DEFEND FAMILIES AND THEIR HOMES.

BUT WE -- MY WIFE AND ME, WE ARE ARTISTS, AND WE CONTINUE OUR ART AT THE TIME.

AND ONE DAY BRENDON BELOMA CALLED ME AND ASKED ME ABOUT CAN WE -- HOW WE ARE AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

>> BRENDON, HOW DO YOU STUMBLE ACROSS THIS STORY OF SOMEONE WHO'S TRAINING CIVILIANS TO DEFEND THEIR HOMES AND HOW TO SHOOT GUNS BY DAY AND MAKING PORCELAIN FIGURINES BY NIGHT?

>> SIMILAR TO SLAVA AND ANYA, SUBJECTS IN THE FILM, MY WIFE AND I ARE FILMMAKING PARTNERS.

SHE GREW UP UNDER RUSSIAN OPPRESSION IN COMMUNIST POLAND.

EIGHT YEARS AGO SHE DISCOVERED THE PORCELAIN FIGURINES AND WAS SO MOVED BECAUSE THEY REMINDED HER OF HER HOME.

AND THE FOUR OF US BEGAN TO COLLABORATE ON AN ANIMATION PROJECT TOGETHER.

AND THEN RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE, AND SO WE CALLED UP SLAVA AND ANYA TO SAY ARE YOU OKAY, AND HE TOLD ME, AS YOU LEARNED, BUT I HAD NEVER HEARD THIS BEFORE, I'M IN THE UKRAINIAN SPECIAL FORCES, AND BY DAY I'M TRAINING CIVILIANS, AND BY NIGHT WE CONTINUE OUR ARTWORK.

WE FELT THIS WAS A REMARKABLE FORM OF RESISTANCE.

YOU HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE IN WARS AND NEVER THINK THEY'RE GOING TO STAY.

YOU NEVER THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT -- TAKE CHARGE THEMSELVES AS EVERYDAY PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEIR LIVES.

BUT ALSO TO KEEP CREATING SOMETHING.

AND SLAVA FELT THERE WAS AN UNTOLD STORY FROM WITHIN.

WE WANTED TO EMPOWER THEM TO BE ABLE TO TELL THAT STORY THROUGH THEIR OWN EYES AS ARTISTS.

WE TAUGHT THEM HOW TO USE CAMERAS.

>> WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO TRY TO TELL THIS STORY THROUGH FILM AND -- AND HELP US I GUESS SEE IT?

WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO SEE?

>> FOR US AS ARTISTS AND AS SOLDIERS OUR FILM IS AMAZING OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE.

ME AND MY FRIENDS IN MY UNIT, WE'RE ALL REGULAR CIVILIAN PEOPLE WHO CAME TO ARMY AS VOLUNTEERS.

AND WE WERE FORCED TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY AND OUR HOMES.

BUT ALSO WE FELT A RESPONSIBILITY IN THE FACE OF HISTORY BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY, DEFEND OUR INDEPENDENCE IN THE ENVIRONMENT, TRY TO TAKE AWAY OUR FUTURE AND HOW TO CREATE.

AND ALSO WE WERE FOCUSED ON OUR CULTURE, ON THE ART, AND ON BEAUTY BECAUSE IT IS ATTACKING BEAUTY.

OUR CULTURE AND OUR IDENTITY IS THE MAIN TARGET OF THIS INVASION.

>> YOU SAID TARGET OF THE INVASION.

WHAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA THAT IT IS THE TARGET?

WHY DO YOU THINK RUSSIANS ARE TARGETING CULTURE?

>> IDEA OF THIS AGGRESSION IS TAKE AWAY OUR OWN CULTURE, OUR OWN LANGUAGE, AND OUR IDENTITY.

AND RECOGNIZE UKRAINE TO RUSSIAN IMPACT.

SINCE THE START OF BIG WAR SO MANY OF OUR MUSEUMS WAS DESTROYED.

SO MANY -- OUR UNIVERSITY WAS DAMAGED, AND SO MANY OUR ARTISTS WAS KILLED, KILLED ON FRONT LINE, KILLED AS CIVILIAN PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN KITCHEN AND BEDROOM BECAUSE RUSSIA SHELLING DISTRICTS OF APARTMENT BUILDINGS.

AND ALSO KILLED ESPECIALLY UNOCCUPIED TERRITORY.

ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VIEWED CULTURE ARTISTS AND WRITERS AND ACTORS IN UKRAINE, THEY WAS KILLED, AND NOBODY CAN BRING THESE PEOPLE BACK TO LIFE.

BECAUSE THIS IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY, REBUILD FUTURE OF OUR CULTURE.

>> BRENDON, THERE ARE THESE KIND OF BEAUTIFUL SCENES WHERE YOU LAYER ANIMATION ON TOP OF ANYA AND SLAVA'S ARTWORK, TINY PIECES OF PORCELAIN.

EXPLAIN WHY THAT'S THERE.

>> ANIMATION IS AN EXTENSION OF ANYA'S, WHAT SHE CALLS HER LANGUAGE.

THE PAINTINGS ON THEIR FIGURINES ARE PERSONAL.

>> THEY ACTUALLY ALLOW US TO BRING THE AUDIENCE TO PLACES YOU COULD NEVER BEEN A CAMERA.

WE DON'T HAVE A TIME MACHINE TO BRING A CAMERA BACK TO THEIR PEACEFUL PAST IN CRIMEA BEFORE THE ANNEXATION.

YET, ANYA CREATED A FIGURINE THAT DEPICTS THEIR LIFE, WHAT THEY WISH UKRAINE COULD BE.

AND HER LANGUAGE IS SOMETHING THAT COULD ACTUALLY SHARE MORE THAN IF WE WERE TO USE ARCHIVAL FOOTAGER TO LOOK AT THE NEWS, WHAT IT WAS LIKE EMOTIONALLY TO EXPERIENCE THE FIRST DAYS OF THE INVASION.

AND BECAUSE THIS IS A WAR THAT CONTINUES TO OCCUR, THERE'S NO END HERE, AND YET WE'RE -- WE'RE LOOKING AT A STORY OF THEIR LIVES.

THERE'S NO CONCLUSION AT THE MOMENT.

THIS IS THE LARGEST CONFLICT IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR II.

BUT ANYA AND SLAVA ARE HOPEFUL, THEY ARE SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL IN THEIR ART.

THEY ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THIS IS THE FUTURE THAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN UKRAINE.

AND THE SURFACE OF THESE FIGURINES WAS BROUGHT TO LIFE THROUGH A DEEP INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATION.

IT WAS ACTUALLY A COLLECTIVE OF ANIMATORS IN POLAND, IN WARSAW, THAT WORKED FOR A YEAR DRAWING 7,000 HAND-DRAWN IMAGES TO BRING ANYA'S STORIES TO LIFE IN THE FIGURINES.

IT WAS REMARKABLE TO SEE HOW PEOPLE CAN WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE WAS A SHARED EXPERIENCE AS ARTISTS THAT PERSONAL STORIES TRULY MATTER.

>> SLAVA, THERE ARE SCENES WHERE YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE OUT GOING FOR A WALK, AND YOU ARE -- I GUESS ON A HIKING TRAIL WHERE PEOPLE WOULD TRADITIONALLY BE LOOKING FOR MUSHROOMS.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO CLEARING MINES.

I MEAN -- OR YOU'RE AT LEAST MARKING WHERE LAND MINES EXIST.

AND I -- I'VE GOT TO WONDER LIKE WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS -- WHY ARE YOU TAKING A RISK IN THE FIRST FIRST PLACE?

>> OUR SITUATION IN UKRAINE, WE ARE SURROUNDED OF THIS KIND OF DANGER.

UKRAINE NOW IS MOST MINING BY LAND MINES, COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

AND OUR FARMERS, THEY HAVE THIS HORRIBLE ISSUE, THEY CANNOT WORK IN THEIR FIELDS BECAUSE OF THIS -- FIELD ARE MINING, AND ALSO OUR NATURE NOT ONLY LAND MINES, THIS HORRIBLE FIRE OF -- OUR NATIONAL PARKS AND OUR NATIONAL FORESTS, AND THE LIST IF SOME IS STILL HERE MINING, AND IT'S -- IT'S IMPORTANT ISSUE.

WE'LL NEVER FIX IT COMPLETELY.

BECAUSE IT'S HUGE AMOUNT.

IT WILL TAKE MAYBE HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

BUT WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.

IT'S OUR LIFE, IT'S OUR COUNTRY.

>> SLAVA, YOU MENTIONED THERE'S A LINE IN THE FILM THAT SAYS "UKRAINE IS LIKE PORCELAIN, EASY TO BREAK YET IMPOSSIBLE TO DESTROY."

I GUESS EXPLAIN THAT.

>> WHEN WE CHOSE PORCELAIN TO MAKE OUR ART, I HAVE THINKING ABOUT IT'S UNDESTROYABLE, SO FRAGILE.

BUT PORCELAIN SURVIVES AFTER THOUSANDS OF YEARS UNDERGROUND IN FIRE, EVERYWHERE.

AND I THOUGHT ABOUT UKRAINE THE SAME.

IT'S SO EASY TO DAMAGE LIFE OF OUR PEOPLE BY SHELLING, BY THIS AGGRESSION, TO TAKE AWAY PART OF OUR TERRITORY.

BUT TO DESTROY, COMPLETELY DESTROY OUR CULTURE, TO DESTROY OUR IDENTITY, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

>> BRENDON, THERE ARE THESE KIND OF BEAUTIFUL MOMENTS WHERE WE SEE THE ART BEING MADE, AND WE SEE HOW THIS COUPLE IS KIND OF LIVING.

AND THEN IT'S JUXTAPOSED BY THESE INCREDIBLY INTENSE SCENES OF DESTRUCTION AND WAR.

IN FACT, THERE ARE SCENES WHERE IT'S KIND OF A FIRST-PERSON VIEW ON THE FRONT LINES.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO INCLUDE THAT?

>> THE JUXTAPOSITION COMES FROM SOMETHING VERY SURPRISING.

AS AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HASN'T SERVED IN WAR, YOU HAVE THIS CONCEPT OF THE FRONT LINE BEING SOMETHING SEPARATE FROM LIFE.

YOU GO TO WAR.

BUT IN KHARKIV, IN UKRAINE, THE WAR IS RIGHT OUTSIDE SLAVA'S DOORSTEP.

AS HE SAYS, THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE.

WHAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS FILM IS IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD TO NOT ONLY SEE THAT THERE IS -- THERE'S NO CHOICE BUT TO DEFEND THEIR LIVES AND THEIR CULTURE, BUT TO ALSO HUMANIZE THIS EXPERIENCE.

A LOT OF TIMES IF YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING FROM NEWS FOOTAGE OR SOMETHING FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE SEE ALMOST A LABELING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

AN INADVERTENT HUMANIZATION, IN IS A SOLDIER, THIS SAY REFUGEE.

BUT WE FIGHT TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE A VOICE BY GIVING THEM A CAMERA AND SAYING HERE'S HOW YOU CAN SHARE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR LIVES SO WE CAN GET TO KNOW THEM.

TO STEP INTO THEIR SHOES AND HOPEFULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING AND HOW IT REALLY AFFECTS ALL OF US.

>> SLAVA, YOU MENTION IN THE FILM THAT YOU'RE SO THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE MEETING THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE.

I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE WHO COME TO TRAINING ON WEAPONRY AND HOW TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

HOW HAS YOUR LIFE CHANGED IN THESE COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> ALL MY FRIENDS, THEY'RE AMAZING.

THEY'RE STILL THE SAME PEOPLE, AND NOBODY WANT TO GO FIGHT EXTRA -- EXTRA MINUTE.

THEY WANT TO RETURN TO THEIR OWN LIFE, THEIR -- THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL IN THEIR CIVILIAN LIFE.

BUT THEY CAME TO ARMY TO DEFEND THEIR PEOPLE.

THEY ARE SO BRAVE AND SO INTELLIGENT, AND THEY -- THEY'RE REALLY AMAZING.

AND THEY SUPPORTED OUR PROJECT A LOT.

I WAS SERVING IN UKRAINIAN ARMY AT THE TIME, AND I WAS ABLE TO FILM "PORCELAIN WAR" ONLY BECAUSE WHEN I TOOK OUT MY CAMERA, SOMEONE CKED UP RIFLE IN MY PLACE.

THEY TRUSTED US, AND THEY THOUGHT ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IS TO SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCE.

TO HELP US MAKE SOMETHING ABOUT CULTURE, MAKE SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL.

♪ >> WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT THIS ENTIRE WAR AND THE PEOPLE THERE IN THIS PROCESS OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS AS YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS?

WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT DO YOU HOPE PEOPLE GET OUT OF THE FILM?

>> I HOPE PEOPLE TAKE AWAY THAT EVEN IN SITUATIONS THIS ABSOLUTELY DIRE THAT THERE IS HOPE, THAT CREATIVITY MATTERS TO CONTINUE NOT ONLY A RECORD OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH FROM A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, BUT TO ALSO ENSURE THE CONTINUATION AND THE SURVIVAL OF CULTURE.

BUT ALSO WHILE THIS STORY TAKES PLACE WITHIN THE BORDERS OF UKRAINE, IT TRULY AFFECTS ALL OF US.

AS I SAID EARLIER, IT'S THE LARGEST CONFLICT IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR II, BUT ALSO HAVE OTHER AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE LOOKING AT THE OUTCOME OF THIS WAR.

IF RUSSIA WINS IN UKRAINE, IT MIGHT EMBOLDEN CHINA, FOR EXAMPLE, TO ATTACK TAIWAN WHERE THEY HAVE THEIR SIGHTS SET.

UKRAINE WAS A SOVEREIGN, DEMOCRATIC, PEACEFUL NATION.

THIS WAS AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK.

AND SO I URGE ANYBODY WHO SEES THIS FILM TO SEE THAT AS A PERSPECTIVE OF EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS.

THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD AND THE OUTCOME OF THIS CONFLICT AFFECTS ALL OF US.

I MEAN, DEMOCRACY IS AT RISK AROUND THE WORLD MORE THAN EVER.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING AND HOW MUCH THINGS ARE INTERCONNECTED.

WE CAN'T JUST VIEW THINGS AS THIS IS IN A BOX, IN IS HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE'RE ALL ON THIS PLANET TOGETHER.

>> SLAVA, WHAT'S YOUR HOPE FOR THE FUTURE?

>> I HOPE OUR MOVIE IS NOT ABOUT UKRAINE AND UKRAINIANS ONLY.

AND I HOPE WE WERE ABLE TO BRING INSPIRATION FROM THE MIDDLE OF THIS DESTRUCTION.

AND I THINK ABOUT OUR FUTURE THROUGH OUR MOVIE.

THESE PEOPLE, THESE REGULAR PEOPLE AROUND ME, IN THE FACE OF THIS AGGRESSION THEY ARE ABLE TO DEFEND INDEPENDENCE THROUGH CULTURE AND KEEP HUMANITY EVEN IN THIS DARK TIME.

I HOPE EVERYWHERE KIND PEOPLE CAN LEARN.

>> THE FILMMAKERS BEHIND "PORCELAIN WAR."

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP GO TO PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.