- [Narrator] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

- [Announcer] Coming up next, Florida companies under investigation for mandating vaccines, school board members talk about harassment from anti-vaxxers, we'll look at the campaign donations pouring in for next year's big elections in Florida and Trump loyalists plan another large flotilla off Pinellas County beaches.

All this and more next on Florida This Week.

(upbeat music) - Welcome back, This week our panelists are: Sharon Calvert writes for the blog Eye On Tampa Bay and is a Republican, Darrell Paulson is a professor emeritus of government and politics at USF St. Petersburg, Mac Stipanovich is an attorney and not currently affiliated with a political party, but he used to be a Republican and Lawrence Mower is a Tallahassee correspondent for the Tampa Bay Times.

Great to have you all here.

Nice to see you.

Well, the Florida Department of Health is warning more than a hundred businesses and performers that they are under investigation for potentially violating a state law aimed at preventing COVID-19 vaccine passports and mandates.

- [Reporter] The DOH says businesses, government entities and educational institutions are not legally able to require that customers, person, students, or residents prove their vaccination status.

Among the companies and organizations under investigation, Carnival Cruise Line, the Straz Center, Raytheon technologies, the Mid Florida Credit Union Amphitheater, the Gasparilla Music Festival and Allegiance Airlines.

- A lot of companies have been proactive about their role in helping their workforce, you know, consider vaccination.

It's a thorny issue.

You know, the more people who are vaccinated, I think the sooner that a lot of employers feel like, hey, we'll be out of this and then be able to steer clear of all the challenges that the pandemic faces.

- So Max, some companies are bucking the state.

What do you think of the state investigating those companies?

- Well, I think you have to distinguish between so-called vaccination passports, where you can't forbid somebody to come in your business without informing you their vaccination status , State law does prohibit that, the law that was passed in the spring.

But the question of employee vaccine mandates is an entirely different question, And DeSantis is relying on the very same statute to say that employers cannot mandate employee vaccinations, and he's wrong.

There's two sections in the statute.

One of them applies to private businesses and explicitly states and refers to customers and patrons.

The second paragraph refers to local governments and refers to people instead of customers and patrons.

Neither one of them deal with vaccine mandates for employees.

So I think he's on his usual, very thin legalized reaching for the vaccine mandates.

- Sharon Calvin, would you agree?

Do you think that he's on shaky, legal ground, thin legal ground?

- Well, I'm not a lawyer, but he's obviously dutily filling fulfilling, you know, the state law that was put in place by the state legislature.

I think the interesting thing is, is there's no federal mandate yet at this point.

I mean, Jen Saki confirmed that this week.

OSHA hasn't even written the rules.

And it's unfortunate that, that at a time of a critical labor shortage, we're finding that perhaps this vaccine mandates making some things worse and as we're watching the airline industry, retail, the, even the unions, so this could be causing a problem and we'll have to see legally, but again, he is dutily, you know, - But Sharon, if a private business wants to say, in order to protect its business, that it wants to require its employees to have vaccines, isn't that the right of a business owner or a business?

- Well, historically my understanding from a vaccine mandate perspective, it was the states for smallpox, for example, there's no precedence of a federal mandate.

And as far as the private business, it's kind of interesting that we're 18 months into this, and, how did we get through the last 18 months?

- I don't know if you remember the time when Republicans and conservatives in the state of Florida and across the country took pleasure in not passing laws, especially laws against business, that would interfere with how they conduct their business.

And this is precisely what the governor and the legislature is trying to do, why?.

Because they see there's political advantage in it.

I don't think it serves any useful purpose.

Anybody who follows the news at all knows the problems that we've had with the, the cruise industry and the thousands of cases that they've had of COVID on there, And yet you're trying to tell these industries that they can't compel safety for their passengers and crews on a cruise ship.

That's ludicrous.

And I don't understand what has happened to the Republicans.

- Well, I mean, 95% of 65 and older have been vaccinated in the state of Florida, And that's the most vulnerable category, you know, of, of citizens.

- Lawrence, let me ask you this.

How serious do you think the state is?

I mean, this is at this point, just looking at these 100 businesses or so, how serious do you think the state is in actually going after these businesses?

- There's, I think there's quite a bit of confusion going on.

First of all, with this list, we don't really know what it means to be on this list.

It seems to be a list of companies that citizens have just complained about.

One of the companies on the list is the Florida department of law enforcements' antiterrorism unit.

I don't know why the state would be investigating that.

It doesn't seem like they are.

One of the companies, as my colleague Kirby Wilson wrote about is a company called Moffitt communications.

I mean, that company doesn't even seem to exist, the Straz Center's on that list.

They've said that, you know, we're not requiring a vaccine, we're requiring either a proof of vaccination or proof of a negative test, which the governor's office has said is legal.

That's allowed, you know, there's a lot of confusion.

Norwegian Cruise Lines is on this list.

They've already won a preliminary injunction from a federal judge, in this case.

On the other hand, in state court this week was another company like a bead shop, I think, that, where the judge ruled that the state could enforce this vaccine passport, so to say, rule.

So, you know, I just think that there's a lot of confusion here.

The state has not done a good job clearing it up, about what this list means, or who's actually under investigation.

- In fact Leon county to fined $3.6 million for imposing the vaccine mandate on its employees.

Orange County could be next.

If Orange County is fined, it could be 40 million.

What do you make of that?

- Well, I don't think, like I said, I don't think that's gonna fly.

Going to what Lawrence said again, there's a distinction between the law that addresses vaccination passports, where customers and patrons, on the one hand, and employers requiring employees to be vaccinated, on the other hand, The statute does not speak to the latter, and that's what Leon county did, And I'm going to suggest that they're going to have a lot of trouble coming up with legal authority to tell Carnival Cruise Line they can't require their crews to be vaccinated.

- All right, let's go on to story number two.

Last week, Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the Department of Justice and the FBI would establish a task force to probe a disturbing spike in threats made against school board members, teachers, and staff over the issue of mask mandates.

This week, Republican members of Florida's congressional delegation sent a letter to the Attorney General objecting to the federal probe, saying it's a thinly veiled effort aimed at chilling constitutionally protected speech.

School board members across Florida report they are being intimidated by people who oppose mask requirements.

Here's Sarasota school board chair, Shirley Brown on CNN.

- I think one of the worst things is the actions at the board meetings.

You know, the calling of names, you know, tyrant, Marxist, Communist, and you know, we're going to get you.

And it's kind of ironic because I mean, after serving 15 years, I decided not to run again for reelection, but that doesn't matter.

It doesn't stop their threats.

And that's the threats on social media.

They'll follow you, they'll take movies of you, And then if anyone comes to the board to speak in favor of the mask mandates, they'll take clips of those, And they'll do background information on those people, you know, like posting our addresses on social media.

- So Daryl have people who are opposed to masks gone too far?

Have they gone too far in the way they treat school board members, or is the Department of Justice or is the Federal Government and the Biden administration trying to intimidate people from exercising their free speech rights?

- I think the state has gone way too far.

And I think the Republican party, once again, has gone way too far.

And for those out there who heard that I'm an emeritus professor at the University of South Florida and think there's another crazy liberal, I was a Republican for 60 years until about seven years ago, with the advent of Donald Trump in particular, and the takeover of the Republican party.

I think the party is, has morphed itself into something that it never was before, but there is a balance between these two, there's no doubt, but you know, the Attorney General of the State of Florida said, there's this, I'm sorry, DeSantis said the Attorney General of the United States is weaponizing the Department of Justice, by using the FBI to silence protests.

Well, it's, it's really no such thing.

Education commissioner Richard Corcoran has said, "We will not let you strong arm us Floridians into doing what the federal government wants us to do."

They should be prepared for a swift and zealous response on the part of the state of Florida.

It reminds me very much, I taught Southern politics for 35 years, And in that class, I talked about how Attorney Generals of Southern states and governors of Southern states made a political career for themselves by attacking protesters and civil rights activists, and the very much the same language that you're finding coming out of the mouths of Governor DeSantis and Richard Corcoran.

And I think it's stuff that has to stop.

I mean, people have the right to protest, but we've seen this where there's threats to people, threats of killing individuals.

We know where you live and that kind of stuff.

And that's just way beyond first amendment protected rights.

- Sharon what would you say to that?

That these people were anti-vaccine have gone beyond first amendment rights?

- Well, we all desire civility.

I think that's common amongst us all.

However, the left has been using harassment tactics for a number of years.

May, last year, what we saw getting in people's faces, we saw Maxine Waters publicly state, go and harass people in public, wherever they are.

We saw Senator Cory Booker say to harass people, you got to get up in their faces.

We saw Rand Paul and his wife, you know, they had to get a police escort to get to their hotel in DC last year when they were walking down the street, because they were being shoved and yelled at.

We saw the Portland mayor had to move out of his condo last year when the protesters kept coming to his condo and was scaring the daylights out of his condo neighbors.

So we have seen, the school board moms, is it's kind of ironic that you're bringing this up after what we have seen.

- I think it's very strange though, that the Republicans now are advocating.

Let's follow what the Democrats did because it seemed to work for them.

- I didn't say that.

- Well that's what it turns out to be.

- Well, I didn't say that because what I said was, we all want civility, but we've seen a heck of a lot of civility on the other side and now what's happened is school board moms, who weren't engaged in politics, but thanks to the pandemic, got some eyes opened on policies that they don't like, so they started showing up.

- Let me go to Mac.

Mac, do you think that some of the people who protested vaccines at school board meetings have gone too far?

- Yeah.

I think they're over the top.

You can always test something by hypocrisy.

I'll give you an example.

If those people or the left-wing version of those people who were showing their asses in those school board meetings, showed up at a legislative committee meeting in Tallahassee and started that, they wouldn't last 30 minutes before the sergeants had them out the door.

I think there were people removed last year for being rowdy in those committee meetings.

So apparently it's okay for the school board moms to raise hell, be rude, be threatening at school board meetings.

But boy, you gotta have some decorum in a Republican dominated committee room.

- And you should watch the June 25th, 2020 Tampa city council meeting last year.

and see if you like that decorum , as well and the name calling.

- Lawrence, how widespread based on the reporting that your paper has done and other newspapers has done, how widespread are the cases where there's not just free speech, but intimidation or following people home, or trying to out their addresses or their children's addresses.

How widespread is that kind of activity by the anti-vaccination crowd?

- I don't know that it's that widespread, frankly.

I mean, there were some examples, obviously in Sarasota, but you know, the thing that's unclear to me is why making comments at a public meeting would be a violation of federal law, requiring the Department of Justice to get involved.

I mean, school board meetings are, and local county city commission meetings, as Sharon mentioned, have been, you know, vitriolic for a long time, but I'm not sure what the federal, what federal laws are being violated here, except for death threats.

You know, that does seem to be a violation of some kind of law, you know, posting addresses online and stuff, but, you know, it's, this is hardly the first time the school board meetings have been vitriolic.

- Okay, well, governor Ron DeSantis' political committee continued to dominate his rivals in the race for donations.

He collected about five and a half million dollars last month, as he prepared to run for reelection next year.

That's a big lead over his two announced democratic rivals, Congressman Charlie Crist and agriculture commissioner, Nikki Fried, Crist collected only about 654,000 for his campaign account and political committee during the month, while Fried, the state agriculture commissioner, brought in less, about 350,000.

So Lawrence that's an enormous amount of money, and that isn't even his official campaign.

That's his political committee.

What does that say about Governor DeSantis' strength as we had for his reelection campaign?

- Well, he's popular.

He's popular in Florida, he's popular nationally.

His biggest donors are, you know, from out of state, mostly.

He's got about 58 million cash on hand.

That's probably three times, about three times as much as either Charlie Crist or Nicki Fried has.

That's obviously a big advantage for him.

You know, it's obviously better to have more money than less, TV ads are very expensive in Florida, you know, but you know, really money is just one of the problems that Democrats will face against DeSantis next year.

The Democratic Party is disorganized.

The lead they have over, they used to have over Republicans in Florida is effectively gone.

And, you know, DeSantis is, you know, it seems like he's somewhere around the country every other week for a fundraising event.

This week, it came out that, you know, he's going to be in San Francisco later this month, a former PayPal executive David Sacks is hosting a fundraiser for him.

And this is a guy, Sacks, who has given to Democrats and Republicans.

He gave to Hillary Clinton in 2016.

And, you know, Sacks basically said that he likes what DeSantis has done on lockdowns.

He likes that DeSantis is contrarian, that he's gone against the media.

And so I, you know, we've seen big donors and small donors from out of state, really give quite a bit of money to him.

And you know, he's on Fox news all the time.

So he has a national profile.

- The governor will be, as Lawrence just said, in San Francisco in a week.

And the tickets for the event, 2,500 to $25,000.

What do you think about DeSantis' chance for reelection?

- Oh, I think he's the odds on favor.

I don't know that he's prohibitive favorite because everyone will know both of the candidates in excruciating detail by next November.

But you know, he is an incumbent, and about 90 something percent of all incumbents who seek reelection get reelected, and he will have an enormous financial advantage, which, you know, usually converts in the vote.

Were it not for money, Rick Scott would still be wandering around in Naples, thinking about buying some island in the Caribbean or something.

So no, DeSantis is going to be formidable, And he's attracted to these large donors, these billionaires, they're taking out an insurance policy against Trump not running in 2024.

And that's DeSantis' advantage.

He's Trump without the, you know, the personal vileness, the crudeness, the grossness, the corruption.

He's a cleaned up version of it.

People like it.

And Cheryl, Sharon, what would you say to that?

That he's a cleaned up version of Trump?

- Well, you know, it seems like the Democrats just have to have the boogeyman, right?

I mean, Trump, Trump, Trump, you mention Trump and everybody has to be associated with Trump, whether they're not or not, they are or not, But Florida has become much more red.

I mean, there's only a 23,551 gap between registered Democrats and registered Republican voters in the state of Florida.

So the people that are moving here, I think they like DeSantis.

- All right, Darrell what would you wrap it up for us on this topic?

- What's interesting is that the poor showing, so far, of Nicki Fried, the only Democrat to hold a cabinet position, she's only raised $350,000 in the same reporting period.

She doesn't have much money at hand.

Democrats have no candidates running for any of the cabinet positions at this point in time.

You know, they always seem to be their own worst enemies, and this seems to be another case of it, where Democrats are just totally unprepared for what's coming.

And there's no reason they should be.

They knew what was going to happen.

- All right, well Sharon, this next one's for you.

Speaking of Trump, Trump, Trump, supporters of former president Donald Trump will hold a boat rally in Clearwater and the waters off Pinellas County this weekend.

They hope it will be bigger than the last one in August of 2020, which organizers say holds a record for most boats in a political rally.

From one of the stated attendees, political operative, Roger Stone, who was convicted of seven felonies, including obstructing a congressional investigation into Trump's 2016 campaign's possible ties to Russia.

Stone was pardoned by President Trump last year.

Is this going to be another big one, Sharon?

- Well, we'll see, but it's a beautiful day on the water.

I mean, it can't get any better than that in Pinellas County at this time with the wonderful weather that we're having.

I think the funny part is, again, is last year's boat parades, there was probably more boat parades around the country and especially in Florida, with all its water, then number of times that Biden actually campaigned, came out of his basement, and had his circles campaign events.

So we'll have to see, but again, I think the rhetoric of the Trump, the Russia, Russia hoax, I think, needs to be put to rest.

I suggest you read Matt Taibbi's post on Substack.

He was the former Rolling Stone reporter, and he will tell you that, you know, there's nothing there.

- So Mac, what is approved?

If there is a big turnout for the Trump flotilla in upper Pinellas County, which is Republican territory, there will be some millionaires in yachts on Saturday.

What does it say?

- Well, it's kind of interesting actually, sociologically.

It's a cult ritual.

I mean, there's no question about it that the MAGA base is basically a cult, of which Donald Trump is the god with a little G, if you will.

And these Trump parades and boat parades are, have become rituals in that cult.

And to Sharon's point, I think she's exactly right.

Last year, our last time, last election, there were more boat parades by several orders of magnitude, than Biden leaving his basement and he kicked Trump's butt.

So, that ought to tell you something about boat parades.

- All right, well, before we go, it's tradition here on Florida this week to ask our panel members what other big stories we should be paying attention to.

Sharon, let's start with you.

Your other big story of the week.

- Well, Hillsborough County still owes taxpayers $544 million that was illegally collected from the 2018 unlawful offer transportation tax.

Judge Rex Barbers, who was the, in Hillsborough county, whose lower court ruling was totally overturned by the Florida Supreme Court, has called for a court hearing on November 10th to discuss a refund process.

Unfortunately though, it's a refund process that the losers of the lawsuit who put forward, trying to keep as much of the money as possible.

The clock is ticking as they tried to put another tax on the ballot next year, and the taxpayers are mad and want their money back.

- All right, Darrell, your other big story of the week?

- Well, it's about the vast number of teachers and school personnel that are leaving long hours, low pay, putting their life in danger, literally with the COVID issue, and, I think the very poor way that the State of Florida has handled that in the public schools.

Florida was the only state to turn down a $2.3 billion COVID relief program.

The third phase of that program, although they finally relented and did seek the money after adverse publicity.

So at the beginning of the school school year, we had 5,000 teachers and 3,700 support personnel, who were either absent, quit their jobs, just vacancies, And it's all related to the status of education in Florida, And the lack of respect, I think, that educators think the state is giving to educators.

- Max Stipanovich, your other big story of the week?

- Well, first I would say to Sharon on November the 10th, the most important thing is that's Marine Corps' birthday, Sempre Fi.

I think that the dominant story is going to continue to be, not new news, but old news, which is, DeSantis and his staff, going to the well again and again, on vaccines in one way or the other.

That titillates the MAGA base.

It places him in direct opposition to Biden, which increases his credibility for a 2024 run.

So he's been getting a lot of good water drawn out of that well, and he's going to keep going to it.

- And Lawrence Mower, your other big story of the week?

- Yeah, mine is the cost of living in Florida and specifically rising property insurance rates.

The property insurance industry is in dire condition.

That's according to the state's insurance regulator.

Rates are going up by double digits across the state.

A number of companies have gone into receivership.

State regulators are watching another dozen companies very closely and Floridians have been complaining to state lawmakers about it, and I do expect to see some action in Tallahassee.

It's basically affecting everyone.

And if you combine this with rising rents, home prices, inflation, auto and flood insurance rates, and Florida is becoming a very expensive place to live.

And I think it's becoming a political liability for Republicans now.

- All right, well Lawrence and Mac, Sharon and Darrell, thanks a lot.

We haven't done this in a while.

It's good to have you all here.

Thanks for joining us on Florida This Week.

(Upbeat music) Well, finally, we had a surprise visitor from Canada this week.

For the second time in a row, the Stanley cup is spending the year here in the bay area.

Thanks for the Lightning's championship season.

As a kid growing up, I used to watch hockey night in Canada, never dreaming I'd be sitting next to this big fellow.

Best of luck to the Lightnings as the new season gets underway.

Thanks for watching.

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(jazz music) Florida This Week is a production of WEDU, who is solely responsible for its content.