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- [Rob] Coming up next, both Democrats and Republicans are trying hard to get the votes of working people.

In 2020, Joe Biden won 57% of union households nationwide, compared with 40% for Donald Trump.

Republicans hope to do better in the upcoming election.

On this labor day weekend, we'll talk with some union members from Florida about elections, jobs, organizing and the state of working America.

All on a special edition of Florida This Week.

(upbeat music) Welcome back, last year, the New Republic carried an article commenting about the increasing number of blue collar people who are voting Republican.

The article said it took the election of Donald Trump in 2016 to show many Republicans that the left behind working class were part of their constituency.

Maybe the most important part, with Trump's departure from the white house, a party of once upper middle class traditions and inclinations finds itself left with the working class parts of Trump's base.

In a society where the deck is more stacked against the working class than it's been since the 19th century.

The party's survival depends on protecting the interests of these voters, and yet, few Republicans have given much systematic thought to how they might do that.

The task has fallen largely to three Republican senators, Josh Hawley of Missouri, Marco Rubio of Florida, and Tom Cotton of Arkansas.

In an interview earlier this year, Senator Rubio said GOP voters are working class Americans and they are changing the party.

And earlier this month, the Los Angeles Times reported that American labor leaders see this as a moment for radical change.

Workers at Starbucks coffee shops and Amazon warehouses are rising up and demanding representation.

Polls show millions of Americans support unions or wish they had the chance to join them.

President Biden with majorities in both chambers of Congress wants to lead the most pro-union administration since Franklin Roosevelt.

About 10% of American workers are in a labor union down from a peak of more than one in three in the mid 1950s.

Government workers are five times more likely than private sector employees to be in a union.

Joining me now on the panel this week, Nancy Velardi is president of the Pinellas Classroom Teachers Association Rich Templin is the director of politics and public policy for the Florida AFL-CIO.

Jim Junecko is a union representative and organizer for the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 487 in Tampa.

Cheryl Schroeder is the executive director of the West Central Florida Labor Council.

And Cristian Cardona is a custodian at universal in Orlando and a spokesperson for the Fight for $15 organization which is working toward a $15 minimum wage.

Well, it's great to have you y'all here.

Thank you for coming on the program.

Rich, let me start with you.

There seems to be a pivot in the Republican party.

Marco Rubio is speaking openly about reaching out to working class people.

What do you make of that?

- Well, a lot of this goes back to what we did see in the 2016 elections, with the election of Donald Trump and where he made tremendous strides in the Rust Belt and some other parts of the state by appealing to working families and including union members.

But what we have seen and we just concluded a national poll of union members across the country, is that really, for the first time in a long time, union members are now very concerned about democracy itself.

They're very concerned about what happened at January 6th.

They're very concerned about moves being taken in states to take away the right to vote.

They're very concerned about abortion access and reproductive freedom for women.

And they're concerned about gun safety.

So a lot of these elements that we have not traditionally engaged a union base around have become more important.

And that gives us an opportunity to really engage with our members about what's really important.

Now, if Marco Rubio really believes that he's gonna portray himself as a friend of working families, I ask you to look to an interview he gave just recently about the cancellation of student loan debt, where he reminded everybody that he paid off his $100,000 debt by writing a book.

Of course, that book was written by a ghost writer who received $20,000 from his campaign.

This is not an individual who has any experience, direct life experience like that of our members and he's gonna fall flat.

- [Rob] Okay, I want to ask about student loans in a moment, but Cheryl, what would you add to Rich's agenda?

I mean, if you were to tell a politician, "This is what working people want, and this should be part of the agenda."

What are the top two or three things that you would say to a politician?

"This is what we need."

- I think a voice on the job is very important to our folks.

I think that's why they join labor unions and support labor unions.

And I find it interesting, Rich's comments about how the swing towards more emotional, maybe democratic type issues is occurring.

Labor unions have always politicized issues that affect working families, specifically, wages, the minimum wage, vacation time, sick leave, those types of issues have always been our platform in the political process.

But by moving to this change in democracy, abortion rights and things like that, it's kind of changing the curve on how we look at arguing membership and how we look at the political process, partisanship side as well.

- Jim, what would you add to a politician's agenda?

If they wanted to really appeal to workers.

- Well specifically with Marco Rubio, his attempt to appeal to union members, Marco Rubio also once said that unions threaten to destroy the industries their workers are in.

And anytime you see these talking points, it's really just a distraction.

Mitt Romney talked about big labor and it's...

They're trying to paint the union as a third party, as an outside agency, when in fact, it's the workers who are the union.

So by trying to appeal to union members, specifically talking about unions, they're trying to separate unions from union members in the working class.

- Let's talk about student loans.

We hear that there are some Americans who are resentful over president Biden's plan.

His plan is to forgive $10,000 in loans or $20,000 if you are a low income person who received a Pell Grant and if your income is below $125,000 a year.

Nancy, let me start with you.

Do you think that your membership is resentful that the president has proposed this plan to forgive some student loans?

- No, I don't think that they are.

I think that many of them are taking advantage of this opportunity, because as teachers, they are lower paid than others of their knowledge base and others of their education.

So they are taking advantage of it.

And I think the older teachers who perhaps, have already paid off their loans or like myself, we didn't pay as much to go to college.

It was much, much cheaper.

So it was not as heavy a lift as the young teachers are seeing now.

- Cristian, let me ask you the same question about people that might resent paying off some people's student loans.

- I think overall, we need to look at the fact that education will benefit all of us in the end.

I think we need to nurture the education of young minds and people in general.

I don't think we should look at paying off student loans as a problem when student loans shouldn't be a thing in the first place.

Education should not be a privilege or a luxury, it should be a right.

- Rich, let me go back to you.

Do you think there's a danger though?

And I wanna put up the Bloomberg graphic here.

If you measured by campaign donations, president Biden's most loyal followers by occupation included professors, librarians, therapists, lawyers.

Biden got more money from nurses and teachers in the last election for president.

Most of these are white collar jobs.

Trump got homemakers, welders, HVAC professionals, farmers, and custodians.

Rich, do you think it's a danger that the Democrats may be separating from their blue collar roots?

- I think we all know that working people in this country have real concerns and they have legitimate things to be angry about.

And many workers have been left behind.

What Donald Trump did, a TV personality, a kind of showman.

What he was able to do was to harness that anger, create fake problems and motivate people through those problems.

But I really think that with everything that has happened since then, folks understand that it's not necessarily people at the border that are causing the infrastructure in Jackson, Mississippi to collapse.

It's not necessarily wokeism or people that might be in the LGBT trans community who are leading to lower wages and higher costs at the cash register.

And I wanna just also point out on the student loan issue.

It's so funny in that when you look at the number of politicians, including many in Florida who took hundreds of thousands in PPP loans, those loans were forgiven.

Where was the outrage there?

So, this whole thing with the student loans, I don't think it's the most elegant public policy that has ever been crafted, I think there are some things that could be done to improve it, but at the end of the day, this is false outrage.

And once we are able to communicate with our members and explain to them the benefits of the policy, explain to them the injustice of folks taking out PPP loans and then intentionally not repaying them and then being forgiven, I think that we will be able to counter any of that false outrage.

- Cristian, I've been following the Fight for $15 movement for several years now and I hear from the opponents of that movement, they say, "Look, if you're working in a fast food job, or if you're working at Starbucks, or if you're working in the service industry and you want $15 an hour, you should go back to college or you should get retrained to get more skills so that you don't have to rely on, let's say a fast food place for your income."

What do you say to those folks?

- This is definitely a question I've gotten a lot in the past.

And I just want to say there is not no such thing as an unskilled worker.

Every job, no matter what it is requires a unique set of skills and knowledge and no one working 40 hours a week, providing an essential service or just working, period, should live in poverty.

We should also look at who are the people working these jobs, so called 'Low skilled jobs.'

It's mostly communities of color, queer people who are being left behind by these low wages and poverty wages.

- I think when I go into a fast food place, and I go in rarely, I notice that a lot of older people are behind the counter.

It's not just people in their teens and twenties.

- Absolutely, we also have a lot of single mothers, a lot of single parents, a lot of people who are busting their ass to take care of themselves and their loved ones.

Fast food workers are some of the hardest working people I've ever met, but their pay does not reflect.

- Nancy, I gotta ask you about the teacher shortage.

At the start of the school year, there were about 8,000 or 9,000 teaching positions open across the state of Florida.

And in some counties, especially in the viewing area here, that is an ongoing problem.

Why was there a teacher shortage at the beginning of the year?

And we've heard from some politicians, especially in Tallahassee who say, "Look, we've given teachers bonuses and raises, and there shouldn't be a teacher shortage in Florida."

Why was there a teacher shortage at the beginning of the year?

- The teacher shortage has been developing for years.

It has been slowly developing as teaching has become a less respected profession.

Across the board, teachers have always made lower wages than, as I said, others of their economic levels.

And they have accepted that to some extent, they understood that that was part of the deal.

The deal was that they would get it in benefits and in retirement.

And most of them enjoyed that deal and agreed to that.

Unfortunately, retirement has been sucked away little by little.

A little percentages have been taken and they have to contribute to their retirement.

And the benefits have gone down, absolutely, but the pay has not made up for the difference.

So between low pay, no voice in how they teach, what they teach, it has gradually become that in the classroom, you are told day to day, what to teach, how to teach it and what you should be teaching on each day no matter what your student body is made of.

If you are teaching an advanced class or a struggling class, you are supposed to be on the same page on the same day.

Teachers don't feel like they have any autonomy in the classroom anymore.

It is not viewed as a profession and they are handed scripted lessons.

So between the disrespect for their profession, the low wages are no longer something they can overlook.

- Florida is a healthy state economically, where do we stand when it comes to the 50 states and teacher salaries?

where does Florida stand?

- Florida is 48th right now in teacher...

In average teacher salary.

And we are the third largest economy in the nation.

- Cheryl, let me ask you a question about the last few years.

Of all the politicians, especially I think, when president Trump was running, he talked about bringing manufacturing back to the U.S.

I think Joe Biden now with the infrastructure bill is talking about re-energizing American industry and all that.

Why do you think so many corporations though, left the U.S to go to China?

And we often hear, "Well, American workers are paid too much, that's why these companies were forced to go to China."

When you hear that, what do you say?

- I think it is a profit margin issue.

And I think it's an issue where corporations have become greedy and are no longer moral and wanna be a part of our country.

It's kind of like they've taken the attitude that money is more important than keeping our country stable, keeping our infrastructure strong, keeping our country strong.

And it's really a shame.

I always throw to this analogy when they used to make Mr. Coffee here in the United States, the Mr. Coffee coffee machines.

And they took the production of those to Mexico.

And at the time that they sold and built, excuse me.

At the time that they built and sold Mr. Coffee machines, they were like $15.99 at your average store.

They went to Mexico, they cut their labor cost by two thirds, if not more.

And guess how much that Mr. Coffee was, it was still $15.99.

So I think it becomes an issue that they say that the American worker is pricing themselves out of production.

But the reality of it is the American workers that are buying the very products that these companies are making.

- Jim, you're with... Rich, go ahead.

- Yeah, just real quick.

Imagine if we lowered the wages in this country to the wages that we see in China, Mexico and some of these developing economies.

Do you realize if we did that, our economy would absolutely collapse.

What people don't realize is that those higher wages that we pay in this country is the engine that drives all the economic activity.

And if you were to simply slash that to meet... To lower the bar to match another country, we'd destroy ourselves.

- Jim, let me ask you, your union represents the guys and gals that operate those giant cranes on construction sites.

I'm always in awe seeing one of those cranes being put up and moving around.

But what's on the horizon?

Based on what's happened in Washington the last two years, what's on the horizon for construction?

Does the future look good?

Tell me.

- It does look good.

Construction's not gonna stop.

These cities are gonna continue to be built.

Jobs are still gonna be in high demand in construction.

And it's just gonna come down to what type of jobs they are.

We in the union, we provide and negotiate together collectively for great healthcare benefits, great retirement and great wages.

It's a profit driven business and there's still always going to be a struggle between workers and the elite class.

There's always gonna be a power dynamic and the unions are what provide a collective voice and power for the workers.

So the work's gonna continue.

And if they can pay as little as possible they are, we're in it to make sure that our workers receive the fair wages that they're due.

- I'm really concerned about safety.

I see one of those cranes and sometimes, it goes over the street that I'm driving on.

I wanna make sure that whoever is operating that crane knows what they're doing.

How much safety training goes in.

And when you see a non-union job, do you worry about the safety of that crane operator?

- These are really dangerous jobs.

When a crane accident happens, unfortunately, there's not just a bandaid, there's loss of life or a limb.

We really emphasize our training in education, our union, all the unions in the building trades have state registered apprenticeships that are four year apprenticeships with the academic and the practical, the on the job training that takes place because we're really talking about lives on the line here on a construction job.

So we really, really drive home the need for safety and education.

- Do you worry though, when you see a non-union site and you've got a big crane in the air over the site?

- I worry about what type of life that operator is able to live for his or her family, because at the end of the road, without a union pension, they're going to be left with just whatever they can save on their own.

So we see it all the time on the non-union side that they don't invest in the training like we do.

So, yeah, I am concerned, of course.

- And Cheryl, is there much of a apprenticeship program going on in the counties in West Central Florida here?

And can people become plumbers and electricians?

- Absolutely, in fact, it's the best kept secret.

And we don't know why it's a secret.

There's four and five year apprenticeships, you earn while you learn.

So, literally, from the day that you enter the apprenticeship, you're placed on a job as an apprentice to learn with the tools, as well as, as Jim mentioned a minute ago, you'll learn the practical side of it, the skill side of it as well as the safety side of it.

So we are very proud of our apprenticeships because they are state registered, they are...

They're absolutely acclaimed for really producing the best workers for the jobs.

And they are the one step for a graduating high schooler or a veteran returning from active duty to enter a trade that is a career in itself.

You never have to do another thing.

Obviously, you can choose to do what you want, but you enter the apprenticeship four or five years later, you have a skill that you can take anywhere in this world.

- And you don't have to go to college to get that skill.

- No college debt, that's right.

(all laughing) - Jim, go.

- Well, it's important that the student debt came up as well because it's not...

Carrying student debt is not exclusive only to white collar workers.

There are plenty of blue collar workers who attended college, graduated, whether or not they finished, they're still saddled with student debt.

And they've got into an industry in the white collar where they found out that they weren't gonna make as good wages and be able to provide a living like they can as blue collar.

So I wanna make sure that there's... We recognize that there's not just a division between the white collar workers and the blue collar workers, it's all of the working class against the elite.

- Let me put up a Gallup poll.

This was 2020.

And I think there's been a Gallup poll since then, but this poll found that 65% of Americans approve of labor unions, the highest percentage in 16 years.

And young adults ages 18 to 34 support unions at an even higher level, 71% compared with the overall average of 65%.

And I noticed that there is a new Gallup poll out today that says that even more, 71% of Americans support unions.

Why do you think the turnaround, Rich?

Because I can remember the seventies when a lot of people were opposed to the unions.

Why do you think there was a turnaround?

- The pandemic really reset labor markets.

If you remember when the governor was trying to... Well, when he successfully took away extended unemployment benefits for Floridians saying that that was the reason that we had a labor shortage, which was absolutely untrue.

What we've learned through that crisis was that the economy has reset and people are rethinking their work lives and they're rethinking, "Do I want to keep working in a restaurant for a menial hourly wage and tips?"

and they're thinking, "I'd like to do this but this really isn't fair.

And the pandemic showed me that.

And my experiences in the pandemic showed me that.

And so I want better."

And so more and more folks are looking to unions, they're organizing.

For the first six months of 2022, there was an increase of 57% in the number of union elections that took place nationwide.

That is an astounding increase.

Labor activity, union activities going through the roof.

And I really attribute a lot of it... A lot of the data that we've looked at attributes a lot of it to what workers experienced during the pandemic and a real reset of the labor market, a reset that's not completed yet and is gonna continue to change the face of Florida.

- But Rich, don't companies have the upper hand?

Doesn't a company have the upper hand when it comes to a union organizing drive?

And then even if you have a vote for a union, you still have to negotiate a contract.

That's pretty tough.

- Well, there has been legislation filed at the federal level for years.

And it's been a real cornerstone of the political process from the American labor movement.

And some of that legislation requires a mandatory contract within the first year.

Some of that legislation requires automatic certification in union elections.

So there are public policy solutions out there about big business having the upper hand.

And every single year with the exception of 2016, we're getting closer and closer and closer to making that a reality.

- Cheryl, just quickly, what would you like to add?

- I'd like to add that we called last October Striketober because there were so many collective actions going on where the employees, the workers were pushing back against the employer.

So when you talk about the tool in our toolbox, that's one of them that was used very successfully.

- Cristian, I wanna ask you about something that showed up in Rolling Stone.

We only have about a minute left.

Dollar General, which is a giant chain pays 92% of their workers below $15 an hour.

McDonald's pays 89% of their workers below $15 an hour.

At both of these companies, more than one in five workers makes under $10 an hour.

And I wanna go back to that point, Cristian, that young people really appreciate unions and want to join.

When you see those numbers about McDonald's and Dollar General, what's your reaction?

- My reaction is that these are predatory practices.

I know I've been hearing a lot that people like to say that people don't wanna work anymore, but I don't believe that it's true.

I do believe people do want to work, they just don't want to work for exploitative companies.

I think in this information age, people are recognizing they have access to information where they can see that unions are a way for workers to have access to better opportunities, more protections and better wages.

- All right, well Cristian, thanks a lot.

Jim, thank you.

Nancy, thank you very much.

And Cheryl, thank you.

And Rich, thank you.

As always, thanks for joining us.

- Always a pleasure.

- Thanks for being with us today.

Send us your comments at FTW wedu.org.

You can view this and past shows online at wedu.org or on the PBS app.

And Florida This Week is now available as a podcast.

From all of us here at WEDU, have a great labor day weekend.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Florida This week is a production of WEDU who is solely responsible for its content.