- This is a production of WEDU PBS Tampa, St.

Petersburg, Sarasota.

[music] - Coming up on Florida This Week as students head back to class, they're walking into a system changing faster than almost any in the country.

Florida has a new education commissioner and the largest school choice program in the nation.

Nearly half of Florida's students now learn outside a traditional neighborhood school.

But local districts are shrinking.

Pinellas County has 45,000 empty seats.

Sarasota is cutting teachers and under a new state law, charter operators can move into campuses that are not full.

Meanwhile, artificial intelligence is already in classrooms, while the rules governing it are still being written.

Is Florida's education system thriving, struggling or transforming?

Our panel of scholars, educators, and reporters on the education beat takes a closer look.

That's next on Florida This Week.

[music] Welcome back to Florida This Week.

I'm your moderator, Lissette Campos.

Joining us today we have Zorka Karanxha, professor of educational leadership and policy studies at the University of South Florida.

Her research focuses on charter schools, education law and equity in the classroom.

We also have Heather Duncan.

She is the dean of the Bilirakis College of Education at St.

Petersburg College.

Her focus is preparing the next generation of Florida teachers.

Jeffrey Solochek the education reporter for the Tampa Bay Times.

He's been covering the education beat for more than two decades, and Derek Gilliam is watchdog and investigative reporter for Suncoast Searchlight.

He holds local schools accountable in his reporting.

Students across West Central Florida are headed back to class in just a couple of days, and the system many of them are walking into is changing faster than almost any in the entire country.

Florida schools are opening this year under new leadership.

Dr.

Henry Mack became Education Commissioner last month.

Mack inherits a system in the middle of transformation.

According to the Florida Department of Education, nearly half of Florida's students approximately 1.4 million now learn through some form of school choice.

That includes charter, private, scholarship or home school.

The department also reports that school grades are up and teacher vacancies are down, but many districts are shrinking.

Pinellas County Schools says the district has roughly 45,000 empty seats and is closing and consolidating campuses.

School board members in Hillsborough say the district lost more than 7000 students in a single year.

And this week, the Tampa Bay Times reports that four Hillsborough charter schools closed their doors in Sarasota.

A district rated a by the state leaders cut more than 130 teaching jobs to align staffing with enrollment.

That, according to the Suncoast Searchlight, vacancies on the campuses of public schools often don't stay empty for very long.

Under Florida's expanded schools of Hope Law, charter operators can move in to underused campuses.

WUSF reports the dozens of Tampa Bay schools have gotten notices from charter operators intent on coming in.

And in other news, artificial intelligence is growing in the classroom.

The rules governing it are a patchwork, though left largely to individual districts.

So the question that many are asking is Florida's education system thriving?

Is it struggling or is it simply transforming?

Well, the answer depends on who you ask.

We've got our panel here of experts.

Jeff, I'd like to start with you.

You've been covering education for 20 years.

- Stop reminding everyone you know.

- So what have been the most dramatic changes that you've seen in the last, let's say, five years?

- Well, five years ago, we already had DeSantis in the governor's seat and we already had been passed COVID.

But what we didn't have at that point, which we have now, is universal school vouchers.

We have an administration in the attorney general's office, in the Department of Education willing to take on the fight for parents and things that it used to not be always a fight of parents against schools.

As much as it seems.

- A collaboration.

- More of a collaboration.

Exactly.

And so now you have the attorney general saying, has your school violated your child's religious rights or something?

We'll sue them on your behalf.

We'll get them.

And that's the kind of thing that is just different right now.

It's it's taken parental rights issues on steroids in a lot of ways that we maybe didn't see coming.

- And this comes to the point about policy, education policy.

Dr.

Karanxha, you've been studying education policy for years.

Is what we're seeing, you know, a series of separate changes or is it one big change with a lot of different symptoms?

Mhm.

- Good question.

I don't think that this is something that just happened.

As someone that has looked at Florida charter school choice or choice in general and education policy in the past 20 years.

I can say that the policy that the state of Florida and legislation have pursued, especially when it comes to school choice and public education, has been consistent since Governor Bush was in office.

Every single legislative session has been an effort to make school choice more available to decrease the number of students that are enrolled in public schools.

And so you have particular laws that were passed, bills that were passed that I would say kind of moved it in more substantial ways.

But every single year it has been slow and steady.

Slow and steady.

And then we arrive now where we have universal school choice vouchers.

Even though they're called scholarships, they are vouchers.

- Well, many parents do support them and that's why they're growing.

Dean Duncan, I'd like to ask you, what does it mean?

What does this mean for the teachers?

Um, how has it changed for the teachers walking into this now?

- I think their role has become increasingly complex.

Um, not only are they expected to be wonderful instructors, but they also are facing emerging technologies, changing policies, differing educational environments.

So our job is to prepare them to be successful despite those changes, to be adaptable and to put student success at the forefront of their focus.

- Derek, you've been covering education in Sarasota.

The question is, are you seeing much of the same in Sarasota, or are there differences between Sarasota, Manatee County and schools in Tampa Bay, for example?

- Yeah, I would say a lot of the same pressures that the panel is talking about are being felt in Sarasota as well, and Sarasota and Manatee, though differently in each school system.

Like, for example, Manatee County isn't seeing the enrollment issues that are happening in Sarasota County.

And that's partially because of growth in Manatee County and the type of growth Sarasota County does have a little more has more of an older population, fewer school children, although that seemingly always hear about demographics shifting in Sarasota not becoming as much of a snowbird haven.

But I would say that it's still.

The demographics there, combined with the growth of charter schools, has put pressures on budgets, not just in Sarasota, Manatee, but across the state.

And it's really a trend, apparently a trend that's happening across a lot of different school districts.

- Well, let's dig deeper into the issue of school choice, because so many of you have really talked about that just a little bit in your answers to the first segment.

And this is really driving a lot of the changes that we're seeing.

Dr.

Karanxha, I'd like to ask you, you know, Florida is now the largest school district in the country that has in terms of school choice.

In plain terms, what does school choice actually mean for Florida families?

- So yes, it's true that Florida is at the forefront of school choice and really in the Vanguard.

A lot of other states are looking at Florida.

What is Florida doing?

And they're following suit.

So if you are a family and you have school children, and you have to decide whether your kids are going to school, you have a variety of choices, right?

You, you can choose to go in the public school.

That's a choice.

You can choose to go to a charter school.

You can choose to go to a, a private school, or you can choose to homeschool.

However, I think that what parents also need to know that there is a lack of transparency and a lack of access to data, and a lack of access to independent researchers to truly examine how the school choice is going.

So if I were a parent and I'm living in a zip code that is less affluent, I would be mindful or I would want to know that, for example, Florida also has the highest charter school closure rate, right at 40%, which is... - There's a lot of different data sets that parents should be looking at when they're making these decisions.

- And they're not readily available.

Because if you look at charter school closures in Florida, you wouldn't get that number.

It took me, for example, two years to find out that there have been more than 400 schools closed.

- And Jeff, you know, the state is saying that nearly half of Florida students are involved in some form of school choice.

So who is who's exactly using these programs?

- Well, it's a variety of people because I know like in the introduction, you mentioned all those options, but you didn't mention magnet schools and some of the other things that people are choosing within their own school districts still in the public school system.

So you go to IB, that school choice.

And so there's a lot of families that are taking advantage of that within the public school system, and they really like it.

Then there are other families who, for whatever reasons, whether they're religious, personal, whatever, are choosing to homeschool or they're choosing to use vouchers and go to private schools, or some of them have special needs for their children, and they use the vouchers to pay for the services in that way.

And sometimes the public schools don't offer that.

But what we're finding also is that when it comes to the vouchers, a lot of the people who are getting them are people who never were in the public school system to begin with.

And so what happens then is when they say this money should follow the student.

Some money was never following any student, but they're still getting some.

- Derek, in your reporting, you have investigated how districts respond when there are problems, right?

There was a state audit last fall that found that Florida couldn't fully account for $270 million in scholarship money.

When the money moves that fast, who's watching?

- In general, what I've found when I'm reporting on these type of issues is that it's harder and harder to actually get the records.

It's harder and harder to figure out where the money's gone.

I know in Sarasota there was I can't remember exactly how many voucher.

Um, the money did not follow the vouchers, but it seemingly they just it's there's like a clearinghouse.

And then there's, from my understanding that it is a rather opaque, um, the money gets paid out.

And then sometimes students would come back to school, to the school district.

So like someone would start homeschooling and then they would get the voucher money and then they would go halfway through the year.

They would then go back to the school district.

And what would effectively happen there was the school district would end up educating the student.

And the voucher money had already been paid to somebody else.

- And we do want to point out that the state, even though they use the term unaccounted for unaccounted funds, they did not say that they found any evidence of theft or fraud.

Um, but the question remains of who's following the money.

- Right.

And then but my understanding is that some of this voucher money has been spent on Disney World, on Lego sets, on other things you wouldn't typically associate with education.

Um, I mean, field trips, people go on field trips, but it typically was the parent paying to go to Disney World, not the taxpayer.

So I do think there has been, it's harder and harder to figure out how education dollars are being spent when they're going directly to third parties, not the school district.

- And Dr.

Karanxha, a Republican senator filed a bill.

I'd like to ask you about that to fix some of these problems.

And it passed the Senate unanimously.

But then it died in the Florida House.

What does that tell us about where this debate sits?

- Well, as I was saying previously, it doesn't surprise me because the trend has been towards expanding school choice.

And if there is waste or which there is, and if there is money that's being lost that can be found, and if there are students that don't necessarily continue in the same school, I think that Florida Legislature is determined to continue in that direction.

So I don't find it surprising.

It's actually something that I see as been happening for the last three decades.

- How are the districts feeling the effects of all these different things, these drivers?

Derek, I'd like to ask you, Sarasota is an a rated district, a wealthy county by by all the metrics.

And it just cut more than 130 teaching jobs.

Why does that happen?

- Yeah.

So declining enrollment is one.

And part of that is because of the school choice.

I mean, but the other part is demographics.

Just how what what's happening?

How many school age children, what area in kindergarten versus throughout the system?

Um, there's also inflation.

I mean, there's a ton of things that impact their budgets.

And in Sarasota County in particular, they were using federal stimulus money and they hired teachers.

That was part of the story there as well.

And Manatee County did not do that as much.

And they also are growing.

They're actually seeing their enrollment go increase.

So it's a combination of inflation declining enrollment, and not all.

There's less federal money floating around to be able to help pay for education.

- So what's what's a story, Jeff, in Pinellas County, you've got 45,000 empty seats.

Um, 7,000 students a year were lost.

Um, what is the situation.

- In Hillsborough?

Yes.

How is it?

Is it district adjusting?

What's happening?

- Well, they're trying to adjust.

They closed some schools.

Pinellas we're talking about right now.

Yes.

They closed some schools this year.

They're merging to some schools.

They're adding to the empty spaces.

You mentioned the Schools of Hope thing earlier, and I don't know if we're going to get to that again, but they're trying to avoid having outside what they would call interlopers, you know, come in and take over empty space.

And so they're saying like, well, we have a wing that's open at this elementary school.

Let's put childcare services in there instead.

And they open that up.

And now teachers have a place to take their children.

But at the same time, yeah, they have 45,000 empty seats.

And so they're, they're going through another round of what should we do?

They've gone out to the community and they said, what do you want to see with our schools?

If we need to shrink them to be more efficient with our space?

Do you want more schools with fewer services?

Do you want bigger schools with more services?

What do you want to see?

I mean, do you want magnet schools with less busing?

What kinds of things can we do?

- And people are also being asked, do you want teachers with more experience?

Which brings me to the question for you, Dean Duncan.

What what does it mean to your pipeline of education students when so many first year teachers are being cut?

- I think that we absolutely are preparing students for a career that is not going away, despite the changes in the different educational settings and options that we're seeing across the state.

We are still going to need great educators.

The settings just may look different.

It may be in a public school, a charter school, virtual online options.

And our job is just to prepare our graduates to be successful in all of those environments.

- And to be open to all of the possibilities, really.

Um, artificial intelligence is another thing that we've been talking about before.

The cameras are rolling about how it's changing and fueling a lot of the things that we're seeing in the classroom and in the, in the system.

Um, Dean Duncan, how do you prepare teachers today for a classroom where every student possibly has access to AI?

- Yes.

And that's a real issue and something that we talk about regularly with our teacher candidates.

We remind them that AI is a tool, not a teacher.

It does not replace great teaching.

It can enhance certain things, but we teach them about the responsible and ethical use of AI, how to identify a use of AI, how to create assignments that are AI proof.

- And just really foster critical thinking in students.

- Dr.

Karanxha, I'd like to ask you about State Senate Bill 1194.

It was put forth by Democrats this past legislative session.

And it would have explicitly set aside AI guidance for Florida schools.

This died in its first committee during the last regular legislative session.

So right now, every district is basically writing its own rules.

Um, how do you see this as a problem.

- Which I find interesting?

Um, I find interesting because of how the state of Florida conducts education.

It's a very centralized state.

So the state controls, uh, standards, uh, controls curriculum, books.

Teacher certification.

Leadership certification.

- Local schools.

A lot of flexibility.

- But that's the point.

So in this case they're providing this flexibility around AI.

But at the same time the school districts don't have that flexibility around curriculum standards.

And so there is that contradiction.

What if, for example, here in Hillsborough, you find out that, oh, my local community needs looking at AI in X way.

So in order to do that, we're going to change the curriculum.

We're going to rewrite it.

And so then the question becomes would Florida relinquish that power that they have had so far to allow school districts to change the curriculum, to change the standards, to restructure their schools, to maybe get rid of some of regulations that don't allow innovation and creativity.

Because I think AI really compels us to think more creatively about what are we teaching our students and how are we preparing them?

- Can I, can I just add something?

Because we're talking about decentralization.

But the State Board of Education is currently crafting a rule on AI, and they held a workshop yesterday as a rule making workshop.

But the issue is that they're they're starting to get their act together.

The legislature didn't do it.

So the State Board is going to say through rule, this is what we want.

And one of the things that they're looking at is giving parents an opt in instead of an opt out.

So they would have to physically say, yes, it's okay for my kid to do this.

- Are schools keeping up with technology?

- They try.

But I mean, what does it change every day, right?

So I know that they're writing rules.

They're trying to do things.

Some school districts are reducing screen time.

Now.

Some school districts are writing guidelines for AI, sort of along the lines of what the dean said, just like we have to make sure that it's something that's a tool and it's not something that's replacing instruction, replacing thinking.

They're trying but, you know, kids are probably more advanced than the rest of us and getting there.

- But then, Jeff, how do you balance this way of what do you teach?

Because so far we have been teaching about doing math, reading comprehension, and AI can do all of that, right?

- And that's a very concerning question for teachers who are investing so much of their education in the system.

Becoming a great teacher when they're wondering, is AI going to be doing all of this for me?

- Yeah, exactly.

And again, that's why we, we address the topic of AI.

We teach them how to use it responsibly.

We take them through the process of constructing assignments that require students to think critically.

That if students utilize AI to complete those assignments, it's it's clear it will be visible.

So I think those are that's how we are approaching those challenges right now.

- And this is the part of the show where we take advantage of the expertise of our of our panelists.

And we ask you, what are some of the other big stories that you are seeing in your field of focus, your study?

Um, I would like to ask each of you the same question, and that is, what should every Florida parent be looking at during this school year?

Derek, I'd like to start with you.

- Yeah.

So in Sarasota in particular, they are doing these recombinations that Jeff was talking about with the.

You'll see a lot of.

We're seeing a lot of drop off from middle from the transition from elementary school to middle school.

And so they're having a lot of they're, they're turning a lot of their elementary schools into middle schools by extending from like this year will be from fifth grade to sixth grade and then seventh grade, then eighth grade at the end of it.

It's kind of like grow and that will shrink the underutilized space.

But I think one thing to see is that whether or not there will be any more schools of hope, trying to take advantage of the underutilized space, and that could be something for parents to watch.

- Dean Duncan, what would you say parents should be looking at this year?

- I think as a parent myself, I'm looking at my students engagement.

I'm looking at the communication between home and school because that is very important to student success.

Having those conversations with my children every day about what they're learning, what their perspective is on school.

I think those conversations are very important.

- Dr.

Karanxha.

- I would say that the the parents should be on the lookout in terms of school boundaries.

- Because what do you mean by school boundaries?

- Well, Hillsborough has changed school boundaries, for example, geographic boundaries, geographic boundaries.

Where will you end up being in school if you are in a charter school?

I would be looking at is this school healthy?

And where do I get that information that tells me so if I am enrolled in a newly created private school that has no data to show me that it's effective.

And have I made the right choice to have my kid enrolled here?

And how would I know?

Because there is no accountability for that.

- Jeff, what are you following?

- I'm bored with them.

I'm a parent and I'm looking at what's going on with the schools.

I want to know what's going on with my kid in that school, especially as they're giving parents more rights and responsibilities.

The responsibilities mean that you have to pay attention.

Talk to the teacher.

Look at all this information, review the data and not get all worked up in all those cultural things that seem to have subsided.

And it's kind of been refreshing.

- When you talk about culture wars, like.

- No, no, I said not talk about.

- Culture wars.

Well, when you even just mentioning that, I think of all the controversy surrounding the AI data centers.

Um, Derek.

Tell our viewers about a public forum that's happening in Sarasota so that they might be interested in attending.

- Yeah.

So Suncoast Searchlight is actually partnering with the Tampa Bay Times and seeking rents.

And we're going to have an event where the reporters talk to the public about the upcoming projects and the response from the community.

- Is there a chance to hear from experts and ask plenty of questions?

- Yes.

If you want to read more and find out where I'll be, it's going to happen in Venice, Florida, down in the Jacaranda Library on August 11th.

SuncoastSearchlight.org.

- Thank you so much to our panelists.

Also, with the primary now just days away, there are some important dates to remember.

Early voting runs now through the 16th.

Some counties do go longer, so check with your local Supervisor of Elections office for the details.

If you already have a mail ballot, it must be in your county elections office by 7 p.m.

on Election Day.

A postmark will not count.

When in doubt, drop it off in person.

And Election Day, of course, is Tuesday, August the 18.

The polls will be open 7 a.m to 7 p.m.

And Florida This Week continues on digital with bonus content.

Don't miss our interview with an expert on hurricane hardening your home.

And to learn more about the state program that's helping homeowners pay for it.

Thanks for watching.

We'll see you next week.

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